Hi,

I am looking for recommendations for an espresso machine that can be brought up to brew temperature in less than 15 minutes. Unfortunately, it won't be used at the same time each day, which would preclude the use of a timer. I'd also prefer that a machine that is as forgiving as possible with limited need for flushing, as it's for my father-in-law who doesn't have the best vision (or patience).

We would use the machine to make couple lattes and a couple espressos throughout the day. Occasionally, we'd entertain guests, which would mean making 6-8 espressos or milk-based drinks (because this will be relatively rare, we can sacrifice increased time between pulls). It's fine if we have to wait a few minutes between pulling a shot and steaming.

My understanding is that the priority on quick warm-up rules out many HX machines, with one exception being the Bezzera BZ07, which according to 1st-Line can be ready in 15 minutes.

1. Are there other HX machines that are similarly fast (e.g., ones with a small boiler), but also forgiving?
2. Am I otherwise limited to single boiler machines and if so, are there any in particular that I should consider?

I think you're far better off getting a programmable timer or wifi outlet than compromising your choices with a machine that warms up quickly. Fast warmup means low mass which in turns means less temp stability. I don't see why a HX machine should heat any faster than a single boiler. For most machines, you're waiting for the group to heat up via conduction or a thermosyphon. The boiler water of any machine will be up to temperature in under 10 minutes.

What's your budget?

At the low end, the Gaggia Classic and its brothers heat up fast. Their boilers are quite small, so they can be ready in 15 or 20 minutes. Temperature control and brew pressure can be a bit difficult to manage though. If you're skilled and have a good grinder, you can pull surprisingly tasty shots, however.

The Breville Dual Boiler heats pretty fast due to its electrically heated group and relatively small brew boiler. Price is $1,200 or so, but it can often be gotten for less.

On the other end of the price spectrum, the La Marzocco Mini heats up fast, again due to small brew boiler. Supposedly, it's ready to go in 15 minutes, though I still wait for half an hour or more to pull shots just to make sure everything's nice and hot. Price is much higher at $4,500 though.

Finally, don't forget to get a good grinder. The best machine in the world is worthless without a quality burr grinder.

spearfish25 wrote:I think you're far better off getting a programmable timer or wifi outlet than compromising your choices with a machine that warms up quickly. Fast warmup means low mass which in turns means less temp stability. I don't see why a HX machine should heat any faster than a single boiler. For most machines, you're waiting for the group to heat up via conduction or a thermosyphon. The boiler water of any machine will be up to temperature in under 10 minutes.

There are some inaccuracies in the above.

The Bezzera HX machines with the bell grouphead (non E61 models) DO heat up quickly. They have electrically heated groups.

This is different from E61 HX machines, such as the Bezzera Magica I have, which do require 45 minutes to an hour to reach full thermal stability. The E61 relies on thermosyphon flow to heat the group.

Also, there are some other examples of machines that heat up quickly and have low mass groups. And are temperature stable. The Breville Dual boiler is considered very temperature stable. And it fully heats up and is ready in 12 to 15 minutes.

I also believe the new Profitec pro 300 double boiler heats up quickly. But someone who knows the machine will have to confirm.

All this aside, you can get a wifi timer that you can program with different schedules and also control remotely with your phone. The WeMo timer is what I have and it works as advertised.

spearfish25 wrote:I think you're far better off getting a programmable timer or wifi outlet than compromising your choices with a machine that warms up quickly. Fast warmup means low mass which in turns means less temp stability. I don't see why a HX machine should heat any faster than a single boiler. For most machines, you're waiting for the group to heat up via conduction or a thermosyphon. The boiler water of any machine will be up to temperature in under 10 minutes.

Thanks for the quick reply. The problem is that my father-in-law would want to be able to make a shot on a whim. It may be that that isn't possible unless you either sacrifice quality or simply leave the machine on. In the end, that may be the best bet and use a timer as you suggest to shut it off at night and turn on first-thing in the AM.

When I referred to HX machines I was largely speaking to those with an e61 group since I am looking for an e61 group myself. My understanding is that the BZ07 uses a dedicated heating element to heat the group rather than a thermosyphon, which, together with its smaller size relative to e61 groupheads, reduces the time required for it to come up to temperature.

canuckcoffeeguy wrote:There are some inaccuracies in the above.

The Bezzera HX machines with the bell grouphead (non E61 models) DO heat up quickly. They have electrically heated groups.

This is different from E61 HX machines, such as the Bezzera Magica I have, which do require 45 minutes to an hour to reach full thermal stability. The E61 relies on thermosyphon flow to heat the group.

Also, there are some other examples of machines that heat up quickly and have low mass groups. And are temperature stable. The Breville Dual boiler is considered very temperature stable. And it fully heats up and is ready in 12 to 15 minutes.

I also believe the new Profitec pro 300 double boiler heats up quickly. But someone who knows the machine will have to confirm.

All this aside, you can get a wifi timer that you can program with different schedules and also control remotely with your phone. The WeMo timer is what I have and it works as advertised.

Thanks for clarifying. I thought that this was the case with the grouphead on the BZ07. I am looking at an e61 for myself and am fine with the longer warm-up time.

Perhaps we should reconsider having a timer and instead go with a smart unit like the WeMo as you suggest and simply use it to leave the machine on during the day if we go with a longer warm-up machine. This assumes, of course, that I can rely on heating element to be shut off automatically if the reservoir goes empty.

canuckcoffeeguy wrote:I also believe the new Profitec pro 300 double boiler heats up quickly. But someone who knows the machine will have to confirm.

Can confirm - boiler is at temperature in 3-5 minutes. Group and portafilter are hot in less than 15. Regarding it's forgiveness, I would say with a quality grinder and good preparation it's consistent. In my experience it's not that forgiving of a lack of those things.

Aren't levers sort of more forgiving? I know the L1 heats up pretty quickly with a little flushing, so if that's in the budget it could be an option.

The Breville Dual Boiler would be another recommendation. Or if all this talk of grinders is throwing you for a loop the Breville Oracle might be an option. It's a semi superauto - grinds and tamps for you, but then it's a semi auto from there, same as the BDB. The grinder isn't as adjustable as a lot of other dedicated espresso grinders, but it probably does a decent job.

I have the Profitec Pro 700 and you can pull a decent shot with a 15 minute warmup. If heating time were important to me for drinks at any moment during the day, I'd just leave it on all day with a timer to turn it off at night rather than buy a different machine altogether.

I have the Profitec Pro 700 and you can pull a decent shot with a 15 minute warmup.

That would be unusual but taste is, obviously, subjective.

Are you sure you F/L wants to get involved with Espresso? Will he be able to obtain the skills necessary to grind properly and know how what to do when the machine chokes or produces a gusher? Maybe a pod system might be more appropriate for the situation. Stay away from single boilers if interested in milk drinks, they take too long to switch modes between brewing and steaming. Finally, the Breville DB is ready in 7 minutes but will require a decent grinder.
Good luck with your search.