I've been reading a lot of reviews lately trying to decide what espresso machine to buy to replace my steam toy. My typical use would be 2 shots or caps every morning for myself and my husband.

The Silvia gets good reviews everywhere but I'm concerned about the learning curve, the speed of preparing 2 drinks and the fact that many of you have upgraded after owning one. The heat exchange and E61 features sound great, but I'm a little reluctant to spend over $1K without knowing much about "pulling shots". On the other hand, I don't want to purchase something inexpensive and have it not be much better than my Krups. I'm also considering a refurbished or used machine to keep the cost down, but concerned about how to assess the value of one.

I'm so conflicted!! Does anyone have suggestions?

The forum contains many past discussions of this very topic (e.g., Best espresso machine for around $500, Help! $1000 budget for espresso machine & grinder, and others linked from the FAQs and Favorites). Mark's article How to Buy an Espresso Machine covers all the fundamentals. The first steps are knowing your total budget and planned usage.

Cassandra, what is your actual budget for machine and (more importantly) grinder?

In a strange twist of fate, many of the 'beginner' machines are more difficult to use than the 'prosumer' models. They skimp on the entry level machines so temperature management can be a bit of a voodoo process unless you get a PID installed. By the time you do that, you could have gone to a higher level machine and not needed the extra.

seymour wrote:I'm so conflicted!! Does anyone have suggestions?

That's what we have the most of!

Seriously, Cassandra, you've told us your approximate usage ("2 shots or caps every morning for myself and my husband"). Expect this to increase, BTW, as the quality of your espresso increases.) You have also told us about your present equipment (you list "none," but mention a Krups). Now in order for the suggestions to become free-flowing, we need one more vital piece of equipment: what is your budget? what are you comfortable spending, including a grinder?

Cheers,
Jason

Ah, the hard question -- $. I suppose I could spend $600 comfortably and $800 - $1000 (but that's risking divorce ). After reading all the posts and articles, I am leaning toward the Le'Lit P1041 (~$500) if it comes to buying a new espresso machine, mostly because of the brass boiler, but would like to spend less. I also have email out to 1st Line, Chris Coffee and Stefano in search of good used equipment. I'm somewhat mechanically inclined so replacing burrs on a grinder doesn't sound too bad, but I'm afraid of getting into the guts of a machine that does things under pressure.

The Lelit is supposed to be nice machine for the money. You could also get a Gaggia Coffee, Espresso or Carezza for even less money. But don't forget the grinder, without which you won't be able to make true espresso. The Lelit stepless burr grinder seems to be one of the best bargains for a little over $200. With that grinder and an entry level Gaggia, you'd be at about $500, which would leave you with some money to get a tamper, a frothing pitcher, cups, and of course some fresh coffee beans. That should set you up with all you need to make some very good espressos and cappuccinos.

seymour wrote:
I'm so conflicted!! Does anyone have suggestions?

~~~~Hello Casandra, You are getting some very good replies from these folks. What they are trying to tell you and their answers have been consistent (read between the lines= : - ) the grinder is more important than the purchase of the espresso machine. If you are on a budget, and who isn't, I'd suggest for you to purchase a used commercial grinder first. When I was looking to get into this hobby, that was my understanding (& it still is), that the grinder is far more important than the espresso machine, for if you have a good grinder and good fresh beans to grind with, on a properly tuned $300 espresso machine, you can pull shots on par with a machine costing thousands more

The grinder I bought last April was a well used Rancilio MD-50, a new set of burrs and I had $250 into it plus shipping. i would consider the grinder I have the minimum standard. There are other brands, read all you can about grinders and be on the lookout for a used machine. Ebay is a good place to look for a grinder to purchase. Use 'commercial espresso grinder' as your search criteria, or 'espresso grinder', 'espresso coffee grinder', etc.

Now for the machine, IMO, you want a heavy marine grade 58 mm chrome plated brass portafilter, single boiler will be cheaper than HX but not always yet usually. if it's a single boiler it's a vibe pump and you want (IMO) an adjustable OPV or the ability to add an adjustable OPV if the machine does not have adjustable OPV. Why?, if the over pressure valve is non adjustable and is set at 15 bars pressure, you wont be at the ideal pressure of 8.5 to 9 bars pressure. Most authorities on espresso pump pressure agree, 9 bars pressure. go to wikipedia and type in espresso and look at what comes up. Amongst all the info the pertinent details of pulling a good shot, the pump pressure is 9 bars, water temp at 200 degrees, w/the right grind, tamp beans you'll end up with a double shot 2-2.5 ounce in 25 to 30 seconds. All this was empirically arrived at when?, late 1940's?, by folks who have forgotten more about espresso than I'll ever know= : - )


If you buy a single boiler machine, PID is nice and you can find good used machines. Remember, when you have a new espresso machine and you pull the first shot with it, it's now a used machine= : - )

so that's my 2 cents, echoing a lot what others have said, buy a good used commercial grinder for the most bang for your buck/grinder allowance, and buy that piece of equipment first. The espresso machine is the least important piece of equipment in the equation but it is nice to have PID on a single boiler, adjustable OPV, 3 way valve (but 3 way valve is not necessary for a good shot)

FWIW, I did my homework when I was getting into espresso and found a PID'd single boiler machine with the aforementioned pieces already kitted. All I had to do was to use good beans and learn how to grind, dose, tamp. I can say from 9 months experience and I pull on average 6 doubles/day, fresh high quality beans is what you want to learn to grind with. You probably know this but you can't make good espresso w/pre-ground beans

Once you get your new grinder and you have an espresso machine to pull shots with, sit down with a pound of beans and your grinder and set the grinder to the finest setting and attempt to pull a shot. If you have a good grinder, no espresso will come out of your PF because the grind will be too fine. Now open the grinder little by little until you pull a double shot and end up with between 2 and 2.5 ounces of espresso (you will need a measure-graduated shot glass) in 25 to 30 seconds (approx)

Others may have better and different ideas but this was how I was taught, and those that taught them, they too followed the golden rule (espresso)



Jake
Reddick Fla.

So I've located a used Silvia, Rocky and base for $550. The owner says it is "a couple years old, retrieved from a pizza shop where people didn't know how to use it". What are the chances that something is wrong with it that will cost a lot to repair? How would I know if something is wrong? Is this too big of a risk for a newbie? Should I just go with the Le'Lit P1043 and Le'Lit grinder (approx. $700) for the safety of a warranty???

At $550 I would recommend looking at it. Bring some coffee beans and make some espresso with it. let the seller know your intentions so that it can be pre-warmed. Also use the steam setting. If it works, figure new burrs for Rocky possibly and a new brewhead gasket for Silvia. I would do a descaling as soon as I got it home.

Check the areas around the switches and steam knob for wear marks on the stainless steel as well as check the markers on the switches for wear. These will be good indicators of usage. When locking the portafilter it should have a slight amount of give if the machine got little use. You also might want to look under the shower screen to see how well it was kept clean. Examine the top of the cup warming tray for scratching from cups- the amount of which also indicates possible use..