Rancilio Silvia with PID vs. Quickmill Alexia without

by **fronesis** on Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:46 pm

Hi all,

After almost 2 years with my Gaggia Classic, I have the itch to upgrade. I've done a lot of research and think I've narrowed my choices to the two listed in the subject heading.

We drink milk-free drinks almost exclusively in my household (average about 6 shots a day), so I am fine with a single boiler and I have therefore ruled out HX and DB machines. I already have a Mazzer Major, so the grinder situation is taken care of. And I'm not quite willing to spend as much as the Alexia with PID costs, so I'm trying to decide between the Silvia with PID and the Alexia without. Quality of shots and ease of use are my two main concerns. Assuming I don't do a ton of temp surfing or fiddling, but basically just pull shots on the machine (with fresh beans, proper grind, proper tamp, of course!) which machine is likely to give me the best shots day in and day out?

What I'm getting at here is the one element my research hasn't been able to answer: is a quality e61 grouphead without PID going to give me better or worse shots than the Silvia with PID? (I know that other things being equal the PID will give me more consistent shots on any given machine, but I can't tell if I'd rather have the better machine without PID or the slightly lower quality machine with it.)

Thanks in advance! This place is always an absolutely incredible resource.

by HB on Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:59 pm

fronesis wrote:...is a quality e61 grouphead without PID going to give me better [..] shots than the Silvia with PID?

From the Quickmill Alexia review:

Jeff Sawdy wrote:In my experience, the Alexia delivers great coffee more consistently and with less effort than the Rancilio Silvia. It may be hard to justify $300, especially for a budding enthusiast, but let's just say I have not shed a tear for Silvia during the course of this review and I don't relish the thought of going back to "her".

Although I haven't used the Gaggia Classic, based on reading many posters' comments, I assume moving from it to a Rancilio Silvia with PID would be closer to a lateral move than a true upgrade. It makes more sense to stay with what you have and add a PID, or upgrade to a choice beyond the Rancilio Silvia (Quickmill Alexia, Bezzera BZ07, etc.).

See Rancilio Silvia to Quickmill Alexia - A real upgrade? for further discussion. JimG speaks specifically to your question:

JimG wrote:I own and use both a PID Silvia and a PID Alexia. So I should be able to answer this question easily, right? Wish that were the case.

The Alexia delivers excellent shots more consistently. And the E-61 group on the Alexia allows a very high degree of confidence that your shot will be within 1F of the target brew temperature (assuming you go with the PID option).

The Alexia's E-61 offers pre-infusion, while the Silvia does not. I have always had good luck with extractions on the Silvia, so it is hard for me to objectively determine how much benefit is gained with the E-61. The best I can offer here is that the Alexia seems to produce, on average, a higher percentage of problem-free extractions.

Were the machines the same price, then the Alexia is a clear winner. And for an espresso purist, a PID Alexia is pretty hard to beat for anything south of $5,000US.

If the choices were PID Silvia vs non-PID Alexia, I would choose the PID Silvia (my company builds and sells PID systems for both of these machines, so I probably can't be very objective on this particular point). Even though the Alexia's stock brew thermostat is adjustable, there is still a temperature cycle to deal with.

A final comment: in terms of improvement per dollar spent, you might also consider investing the price difference between the Silvia and the Alexia in a grinder upgrade.

Jim

I suppose it also depends on how much value you place on the added convenience of PID control. Since I use an HX espresso machine, I clearly don't mind the extra effort of brew temperature control if the end result is better. The "PID vs. non-PID" consideration doesn't carry much weight for me, especially because it's an option you can always add later to a superior platform.

by **fronesis** on Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:15 pm

Thanks a lot, Dan, for the quick response.

I have read the Alexia review closely, and this had me thinking that the Alexia without PID would still be a good move. And your logic makes sense to me as well: that the Silvia isn't a dramatically different machine from my Classic.

But I had not seen the post from Jim that you quoted, and he seems to contradict the logic above by saying he'd prefer a Silvia with PID to the Alexia without.

That makes it a tougher call for me, since I don't really want to move laterally, but I just don't think I'm ready to spend the money for the Alexia with PID.

As to your question,

HB wrote:I suppose it also depends on how much value you place on the added convenience of PID control.

There's definitely value there for me. I don't mind learning a routine on the non-PID machine that will give me consistent shots, but I don't want to deal with a finicky process every day. What I'm not quite clear about is how hard it will be to get the non-PID Alexia to give me consistent shots. Obviously the only real way to answer that question is to buy the machine and use it for a month, but it's also obviously not that simple.

by HB on Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:21 pm

I used the Alexia with and without PID. Years back, I used the Isomac Zaffiro with and without PID. The PID was certainly a welcome improvement, but I don't consider the lack of one a deal breaker. If it helps, my recommendation is consistent with Randy's recent comments on the same subject:

Randy G. wrote:Keep the Gaggia until you can afford to go into a better machine (HX or dual boiler). The difference in the quality of the espresso will be negligible between your current set up and the PID'd Silvia

From Does adding PID kit void your warranty? on CoffeeGeek.

fronesis wrote:What I'm not quite clear about is how hard it will be to get the non-PID Alexia to give me consistent shots.

I would much rather deal with a Quickmill Alexia without PID than a Rancilio Silvia with one. See my comments in Rancilio Silvia with PID temperature controller for more background.

by **fronesis** on Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:38 pm

HB wrote:I would much rather deal with a Quickmill Alexia without PID than a Rancilio Silvia with one. See my comments in Rancilio Silvia with PID temperature controller for more background.

Thanks! Both the background reading in that thread, and your opinion here, are very very helpful.

One question, if you don't mind.

Randy wrote:Keep the Gaggia until you can afford to go into a better machine (HX or dual boiler)

When you say this is your recommendation as well, does that mean you'd steer away from the Alexia to an HX machine (DB is out of my price range)? Or does the Alexia count as a "better machine" despite not being HX or DB?

I would have thought the Alexia would be a big step up. And I really have NO interest in milk or steam. I probably make 2 lattes a year. So if I could afford it, I would think that, for me at least, the Alexia plus PID would be a better option than a similarly-priced HX machine.

I suppose I was already inclined to rule out the Silvia, so my question now is: is the Alexia without PID a worthwhile upgrade from my Classic.

But perhaps I'm missing something?

cheers!

by HB on Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:46 pm

fronesis wrote:...is the Alexia without PID a worthwhile upgrade from my Classic.

Yes, I think it is an upgrade that will serve you well for many years.


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