Let me speak with voice of (bad) experience. I started off with a useless grinder and machine. Traded up to a Vario within a few months. Recently upgraded to a Silvano and couldn't be happier. But I wouldn't have appreciated it had I not started with a Gaggia Dose. For me, definitely PID is the way to go.

Hi OP
For what its worth, I was talking to a guy who runs my local coffee shop and he reckons it's a good idea to PID the Silvia.

He also thinks the Rocky/Silvia is a very nice set up with out having to spend loads of money.

But what does he know? He's just Gwilym Davies 2009 World Barista Champion.

Barista Champion = economist ?

(Spend less on a machine that the Silvia) + (Spend more on a grinder than the Rocky)
= Better espresso

The Rocky+Silvia is not a bad combo, but for the money you can do better in terms of espresso quality (depending on your location). Ten years ago the Rocky was a good entry-level choice, but the market has grown since then and there are other grinders available for not that much more that out perform Rocky in terms of espresso.

Not an economist, but i'm guessing he knows a lot more about coffee / machines than most here. Seeing as he's a professional and not an amateur.

He also answered the OP original question rather than to use it as an excuse berate someones machine choice.

@CZ - Being a professional barista, champ or not, is no guarantee that the person in question will be familiar with an entry level setup. It's a likely predictor that they will be knowledgeable about coffee, espresso in particular, and how to pull good, consistent shots on commercial equipment. It may even predict how well they may be able to jump onto a Silvia/Rocky combo and produce a decent shot, but to suggest that being a professional automatically confers knowledge about a specific setup without having some prior experience on a similar type of machine is a stretch at best. Silvia and other entry level SBDUs using the same button thermostat present a specific challenge with regard to temperature management, an issue that commercial equipment doesn't have.

Nor does being an amateur automatically confer ignorance. One of the great things about HB is that the level of discussion is fairly high, as is the depth of content. All from amateurs who, in common with professionals, continue to invest a considerable amount of time in learning about the art, craft and science of coffee, albeit on a slightly different time scale. HB gives these amateurs and like-minded individuals a forum where the ideas, opinions and information can be shared, argued and explored.

Personally, I give the pros like Gwylim a lot of credit; I wouldn't give up my current profession to become a barista, but indulge my curiosity and passion as a hobby. Their livelihood depends on their passion and dedication. That's pretty gutsy in my book.

I met Gwylim briefly during his Nuova Simonelli tour stop here in Chicago, and he is quite knowledgeable and friendly to boot, but there were no Silvias in sight - just a big 3 group Victoria Arduino.

On topic: Silvia + PID = much better shots. If you already have a Silvia, get the PID and save yourself the headaches.

CZ wrote:...but i'm guessing he knows a lot more about coffee / machines than most here. Seeing as he's a professional and not an amateur.

Knowing how to make great coffee as a professional does not relate to knowing the home machine market (nor does it mean he does not). I would hazard a guess that there are a number of pro baristas that have never turned a wrench inside a machine. SO many modern pro machines have external electronic controls to set brew parameters that the knowledge that the mechanical knowledge that was required decades ago is no longer a universal requirement.

My statement was based on my opinion (shared by many) that, 5 to 10 years ago the Rocky/Silvia combo was a great starter outfit because there was little else in grinder availability that could best Rocky without spending a lot more money. That portion of the market has expanded in the last three to five years offering choices, that while are a bit more expensive, would allow a new home barista to make better espresso for the same or less investment. One of the more affordable Gaggias (compared to Silvia) with one of the better grinders (like the Baratza Vario for example).

Silvia, while a well built machine, is overpriced compared to its performance compared and the Rocky, lacking stepless adjustment and having (relatively) low-tolerance grind adjustment (indicated by the wobble of the upper burr carrier) is just not the best choice any more.

It was that upon all that which I based my comment. And to be fair, just because I know something about the home espresso machine and grinder market, does not mean I am a professional barista.

I was going for the Rocky+Silvia+PID combo, bought the Rocky first, but then I'm glad I followed your advice, and skipped the Silvia, to an entry level HX (Bezzera BZ10). At 840 € was not so far from the Silvia+PID, but in a higher tier! Although I do have the Rocky and had to make it various modifications.