Thanks...

You say I have the option to plumb, but I can't run the rotary off the reservoir, correct?

See Do most plumb-in machines require external pressure? Short answer: Some rotary espresso machines run fine without positive pressure (e.g., Izzo Alex), some don't (e.g., Quickmill Vetrano).

Thanks for the link, but I was wondering if the rotary pump can run off an internal reservoir.

I'm guessing there isn't enough space for it.

HB wrote:See Do most plumb-in machines require external pressure? Short answer: Some rotary espresso machines run fine without positive pressure (e.g., Izzo Alex), some don't (e.g., Quickmill Vetrano).

Dan, my Vetrano seems to run fine without external pressure. Do you have any documentation that I should not be doing that? I am hoping this is a moot point for me, as the "kitchen remodel from hell" should be wrapping up soon, complete with the necessary machine plumbing.

The Vetrano is fitted with a rather small connecting line to the pump (internal to the machine).

All pumps (not just those fitted to espresso machines) have a net positive suction head (NPSH) requirement and the typical installation meets this with ease. This is a good link explaining NPSH: http://www.vikingpump.com/en/documents/Engineering%20Documents/NPSH_simplified.pdf . Now I haven't put pen to paper to calculate NPSH for the Vetrano but that ~10" length of small tubing would bother me even with the relatively low flow conditions. Conversely, if it were 3/8" tubing, I wouldn't even be typing this and when the machine is fed clean water at ~ 35 psi, it performs beautifully.

Operating a machine from a stationary tank would be my preferred method of operation - a few pros and cons but this is just another example of why each installation (and pump itself) is a little different. I had a pronounced cavitation problem when I tried to run a Vetrano from a tank but I also know that you (Scott) do not.

Have you taken a look at what's locally available? The Greenbeanery has a Kedge T1, which is supposed to be an Astoria clone. It has a 6l stainless steel boiler(!), volumetric dosing, and Im' pretty sure it's a rotary pump - for $1,650 (CDN!!!).

It seems like a very high quality machine with great parts for the price - Paul Pratt reviewed the machine and thought it was well put-together.

http://www.greenbeanery.ca/bean/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_144&products_id=1519

To me this seems like an incredible deal, and I would look at it very carefully before spending more. It even has a 1-year warranty, which is serviced locally for those of us in Toronto.

If i was looking for a new machine right now, and I might be soon, this would be first on my list to check out.

Mark

Keep in mind that Kedge Klüb is 220v ONLY.

Yes, 220v and should be plumbed; but Gicar control, Sirai p-stat, Procon rotary pump.

See Paul's comments on the machine: http://www.espresso-restorations.com/Kedge.html

Looks like I'm talking myself into this machine. Why did I start posting to this thread? i was doing just fine with my current stuff...

Mark

zin1953 wrote:Keep in mind that Kedge Klüb is 220v ONLY.

Nice umlaut there, Jason. You have a keystroke for that?

Mark

I can respond for zin1953: ü ä ë are formed by typing option-u and then the vowel over which you want the umlaut to appear. (I think it is ctrl-u if you are using a windows box, but I'm not sure.)

Kül! Thänks Chert!

Märk

Dogshot wrote:Have you taken a look at what's locally available? The Greenbeanery has a Kedge T1, which is supposed to be an Astoria clone. It has a 6l stainless steel boiler(!), volumetric dosing, and Im' pretty sure it's a rotary pump - for $1,650 (CDN!!!).

Mark

Troll wrote:I'm trying to decide between the Andreja and Expobar III-V. I've only began considering the Expobar III recently after fiddling with my PID'd Silvia. I'd like to not worry about brew temperature.

Having said that I don't like the large size of it and not crazy about it's styling either.

I prefer the Andreja's styling, build quality and smaller foot print. Both are available from Canadian retailers for roughly the same size so pricing is not factored into my decision making.

Mark,

I think the sheer size of the Kedge rules it out for the OP. If he thought a Brewtus was big, he'll when he sees the dimensions for the Kedge.

Thanks for all your help guys. I finally came to a decision and purchased the Brewtus III. The guys over at the Brewtus Group were very helpfull as well. When it came down to it I just wasn't thrilled about going back to temperature surfing.

I'll be sure to share my experiences with the Expobar. I purchased it from Zcafe and they were a pleasure to deal with.