I just bought a Baratza Vario, and am now looking for a good machine to go with it. I think I've settled on the Silvano, but I was also looking at the Alexia.

What makes the Alexia without a PID ~$200 more and an Alexia with a PID ~$500 more than the Silvano? Is it going to produce significantly better espresso than the Silvano?

I guess I'm just a bit confused about the big price difference compared to what is seemingly a small gain. I also see a lot more people talking about the Alexia than the Silvano, so there must be something that I'm missing.

Eric,

I could be wrong, (someone please step in and correct me if I am) but I think the biggest difference here in price, has to do with the actual look of the machine. Internally (as far as I know) both are single boilers, in a class similar to the Silvia, although the Silvano, has a thermoblock and pump specific to the steaming wand. If it wasn't for the looks, it seems like the Silvano would be a "no-brainer" as long as the Thermoblock was as good as they are hoping. There are a few threads on here about the Silvano, and how well it should perform, but since it is a fairly new machine, I'm not sure if there is much in terms of how well it actually does perform, and the test of time is not there yet.

The nice polished SS body and exposed group head of the Alexia, I think is what makes up the biggest difference in price. As polishing, and fabricating a body like this is time consuming, and labor intensive. The Alexia is a great machine for espresso drinkers, but has the same setbacks as the Silvia, as far as steaming milk. Where as the Silvano, does not have the wait, the power may not be there. I think that is still in discussion.

Personally... Straight espresso I'd go with the Alexia, it's proven itself already. If you have the need for occasional or more frequent cap's I'd look at the Anita, and possibly find one used, for similar price.

Quickmill Silvano

This thread talks a lot about the Silvano, and the difference between Version 1 and Version 2 towards the end. Might be worth a read.

Jedi012 wrote:What makes the Alexia without a PID ~$200 more and an Alexia with a PID ~$500 more than the Silvano? Is it going to produce significantly better espresso than the Silvano?

The Alexia has the renowned E61 group. This provides both temperature stability and pre-infusion (via its pre-infusion chamber). The E61 group probably also helps with good water dispersion.

The Alexia is also well know for the quality of its espresso, but as a single-boiler dual-use (SDBU) machine, it cannot provide espresso and steam at the same time, something the Silvano can do.

What is important to you: ability to make a few cappuccino in line in a shorter amount of time, or are you only drinking espresso and quality/consistency in the cup is your goal?

Note that these two machines are probably not of the same class. Look at the Alexia as a high end machine crippled in its steaming ability (SDBU) and stripped of its hot water tap, hence its lower price compared to other E61 dual-boilers/heat-exchangers. If you are all about espresso, its probably a deal, if not, you could regret it.

Euology101 wrote:Quickmill Silvano

This thread talks a lot about the Silvano, and the difference between Version 1 and Version 2 towards the end. Might be worth a read.

Thanks for the link to the thread on the Silvano. I did read that, and the article on the Alexia as well.

Louis wrote:The Alexia has the renowned E61 group. This provides both temperature stability and pre-infusion (via its pre-infusion chamber). The E61 group probably also helps with good water dispersion.

The Alexia is also well know for the quality of its espresso, but as a single-boiler dual-use (SDBU) machine, it cannot provide espresso and steam at the same time, something the Silvano can do.

What is important to you: ability to make a few cappuccino in line in a shorter amount of time, or are you only drinking espresso and quality/consistency in the cup is your goal?

Note that these two machines are probably not of the same class. Look at the Alexia as a high end machine crippled in its steaming ability (SDBU) and stripped of its hot water tap, hence its lower price compared to other E61 dual-boilers/heat-exchangers. If you are all about espresso, its probably a deal, if not, you could regret it.

As far as drinks are concerned, I am interested in mostly straight espresso, with maybe an occasional latte (at most once a week).

I was somewhat expecting the answer to be about the E61 group, after all that I've read about it.


Anyway, I think I'm going to get the Silvano and save for a future DB machine.

EDIT: I hit submit too early instead of preview.

HB wrote:I haven't seen the Silvano, but I caution against offering advice based on comparing specifications. I've made similar assumptions about the performance of espresso machine X based on my familiarity with the design characteristics of espresso machine Y, only to be proven wrong (e.g., Pressure profiles, preinfusion and the forgiveness factor). BTW, the Quickmill Alexia and Rancilio Silvia are not in the same class; see Is the Quick Mill Alexia worth the extra cost compared to the Rancilio Silvia? in the review's conclusion for details. I can't comment on the Silvano, other than to note that its name is suspiciously close to Silvia.

Just to be clear, I am looking at the Silvano and not the Silvia, but I think you already know that. From what I've been researching, it seems that between the Rancilio + PID and the Silvano, the Silvano comes out on top.

I have another related question about the Alexia. Looking at Chris' Coffee, they offer it with a Dual Control PID or a Single Control PID. Assuming one is already planning on getting the Single Control PID, is the Dual Control PID worth the extra $50?

I never used an Alexia, but did use an Auber PIDed Silvia for more than a year, with both brew and steam temperature control. This should be applicable also to the Alexia:

The steam control allows the temperature to be adjusted as you wish (may have additional protection for unreasonable temperatures, so you don't harm the machine/make it explode in a we-don't-want-to-think-about-it way). This can provide more steaming power than the lower, fixed, original thermostat.

The PID also has a narrower dead band, reacting faster to a temperature drop than the stock bimetallic thermostat. As you start steaming, the heater comes on almost instantly, providing a longer steaming window.

On the Silvia, the steam temperature was managed by using high/low alarm functions on the PID (temperature <140 triggers SSR-off; >139 triggers SSR-on) rather than by using a true dual-PID control. Hence, it was not really "PID" managed (i.e. it overshoots big time), but as far as I know, fully PIDing this function would serve no purpose (the element would need to be a lot more powerful to be able to stabilize the temperature on the set point while steaming). I don't know if this is also the case for the Alexia PID.

Considering the comparison made in the review between the Alexia and the Silvia for steaming power, it might be nice to have the dual-control PID. I certainly liked it on the Silvia.

In theory, you are considering the Alexia vs other options (HX) in the same price range because :
1. you don't intend to steam milk regularly for yourself (or you are an adept of "patience is a virtue" and this doesn't appear to you as an issue) and
2. you certainly don't want to make more than 2-3 milk drinks in a row.
If either of these assumptions is false, you are looking a the wrong machine with the Alexia.

The dual PID version of the Alexia uses PID control at the brew setpoint and ON/OFF control at the steam set point. FWIW, the Watlow controller can be configured with zero hysteresis for steam. This has a relatively small, but helpful, effect on the amount of over- and undershoot at the steam setpoint.

Jim