Quick and Quiet Espresso

by **bdaxon** on Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:16 pm

I will be purchasing an espresso machine in the next few months and am looking for two qualities/features above all others (besides making great espresso, of course): 1. the machine be as quiet as possible, and 2. the machine be as quick as possible. I will be entering my first year medical residency and will not have much time in the morning when I will mostly be making my espresso, and I will be living in a small apartment and do not want to disturb my wife as I get ready and she is still asleep. Please help.

My understanding is that the rotary pumps are exceptionally quiet, and I know the dual boilers would be faster than a single boiler heat exchanger, but a dual boiler and rotary pump (e.g., Expobar Brewtus III) is getting too expensive for me. What suggestions/advice do you all have?

I would appreciate any advice. Thank you.

by **hperry** on Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:30 pm

SuperAutos have a bad name. However Chris has worked to develop one that, at least by spec, looks like it may be OK. http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/quickmillstainlesssuperauto It would fulfill the "quick" part of the equation. Quality - no reviews yet I am aware of. Noise - I'd give Chris a call

FWIW the Dalla Corte Super Mini with rotary pump is a very quiet machine and relatively quick to use once you get it dialed in and understand its operating parameters.

by **A2chromepeacock** on Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:48 pm

Hi Ben,

Congrats on your residency! After 8 years of residency myself, I can speak to this: the quietest machine in existence, of course, is a lever machine!

I've only owned a pavoni, but it's perfect for me in the morning. I flip it on, it warms for 10 minutes while I shower, and then the negotiations begin. (NB: the LPs tend to have, ahem, character: the warmup routine varies between machines...the 10 minutes works for me). Even now in my more "leisurely" mornings, my alarm-to-door time is between 35 and 45 minutes.

The issue you'll still face is the grinder. Most are loud, so I'd focus more on how quick they are, to limit the loudness. I've read on this forum that the Malkoenig K30 is very quiet (but expensive), and the new-just-released Baratza Vario is quiet as well. For quietness, I'd recommend against a doser.

Good luck!

by **GVDub** on Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:13 pm

For a grinder, it doesn't get much quieter than a hand grinder, and if you keep your eyes open for one at Orphan that's rated at both espresso capable and reasonably fast, that would certainly keep the stealth factor up.

by **greatphotos** on Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:05 pm

Grinder wise I have the new Baratza Vario and it sounds like my dish washer when it is running (which is for 8 seconds). An even quieter and quicker choice would be to use ESE Pods for your coffee.

I have a new version Breville 800ESXL which is frowned on by this forum but I happen to like it. It's CONVENIENT. In 3 minutes it's ready to do your first cup, sounds like an aquarium pump when it is running, doesn't need temperature surfing. If I want steam it takes 10 seconds to get steam instead of several minutes and I don't have to wait for a cool down for a second cup as it spritzes water automatically after steaming to bring the temperature down. Many people say it does a shot too fast which is true, mine are 10-15 seconds instead of 25 but I like the taste. I found a dealer that sold me my new one for $196 including shipping instead of around $400 or so.

If I could find a deal I personally would get a Vivaldi II. I thought the Dalla Corte was going for over $4000

by **uscfroadie** on Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:20 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with A2chromepeacock's recommendation on a lever. If you are on a budget, I think your best bet would be a Gaggia Factory from WLL (you'll have to call to see if they have any left, but they were clearing them out for $550 brand new!!) and for a grinder, a hand mill from orphan espresso, or if you can find one, a new Zassenhaus ($90). As mentioned above, within 10 minutes you can be pulling a shot, and the "learning curve" with using a fully manual lever are in my opinion, grossly overrated. I was pulling good shots on my second pull and within a week pulling great ones.

If you can stretch your budget, you may want to look at something like Ponte Vecchio or Elektra levers as they are spring levers (pull the lever and the spring will produce the correct pressure to pull your shot).

On the equipment end, grinders are the most important, and they'll be the loudest piece you'll use in making espresso if you go with a lever or rotary machine. You have quite a few really great options for under $600, so you really could have a great set-up for $1,000.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

by **timo888** on Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:26 pm

Second on the spring lever, Ponte Vecchio Lusso.

1. Silent
2. Boiler heats up in less than 10 minutes and a short warming flush (~1oz) brings the thermosyphon group quickly up to temperature.
3. Can be turned on before you take your shower and won't overheat if left on
4. Capable of handling the espresso/cappa demands of a small dinner party
5. Compact / small footprint
6. Like all levers, gives you control over preinfusion

by **Bluecold** on Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:22 pm

I wouldn't buy a new Zassenhaus. They don't have a bottom bearing and keep the burr centered with stupid plastic tabs.
Zassenhaus needs to pull their act together and stop scamming us with stuff that is actually worse than the stuff they made 50 years ago. Just because Peugeots pepper grinders suck nowadays doesn't mean Zassenhaus needs to pull that trick too.

An Orphanespresso grinder would be better and cheaper.

by **bdaxon** on Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:31 pm

re: Quick and Quiet Grinder

I am going into my first year medical residency next year and am looking for the best grinder/espresso combination (priority in that order) I can get for less than $2,000, but here is my catch: I will be getting up very early and making my espresso in a small apartment. Consequently, I want to spend as little time possible making my espresso I don't want to wake my wife while doing it; i.e., I want to make my espresso quickly and quietly. I still want make quality espresso, though, and look forward to those times when I'll be able to have people over or take a weekend afternoon and tinker with the machines myself.

What advice/recommendations do you all have? Any reply will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

by HB on Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:28 pm

Hope you don't mind, I merged your second thread on quiet grinders into your first thread on quiet espresso machines...

GVDub wrote:For a grinder, it doesn't get much quieter than a hand grinder, and if you keep your eyes open for one at Orphan that's rated at both espresso capable and reasonably fast, that would certainly keep the stealth factor up.

timo888 wrote:Second on the spring lever, Ponte Vecchio Lusso

I agree, a hand grinder and spring lever are as quick and quiet as it gets. The Buyer's Guide to the Ponte Vecchio Lusso was recently published; in a nutshell, it's newbie friendly and silent. A grinder with motor is going to make noise, it's only a matter of how much.

by **hperry** on Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:43 am

The Lusso does sound like a good choice for a quiet espresso machine. I guess a hand grinder is somewhat quieter than one with a motor. However, although I own three of them (one wall, one knee and one countertop) they don't fit the "quick" definition. And I've never quite caught the "romance" of cranking 50 (quite hard) to 200 turns to get enough coffee to fill the portafilter. It is true, however that two of the 3 do a very nice job of grinding the coffee. I just don't have the patience.

by **roastaroma** on Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:11 am

Ciao Ben,

If you haven't the time for manual grinding, there are a few electric burr grinders that are "relatively low noise", for ex., the Rancilio Rocky & the Mazzer Mini (if I've read correctly). In these cases, it isn't the motor so much as it is the beans getting ground up that makes the noticeable noise. On the plus side, grinding with one of those takes considerably less time than pulling the shot.

Buona Fortuna,
Wayne

by **ChristianB** on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:38 pm

roastaroma wrote:If you haven't the time for manual grinding, there are a few electric burr grinders that are "relatively low noise", for ex., the Rancilio Rocky & the Mazzer Mini (if I've read correctly).

I guess it is a matter of opinion, but I would not describe the rocky in my kitchen as "low noise". My advice would be to "listen before you buy"

by HB on Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:08 pm

Here's a comparison of two grinders. The Mazzer Mini E is quiet as grinders go and the Le'Lit is noisy as grinders go. In my opinion, there's no such thing as a "quiet" motorized grinder.

by **timo888** on Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:22 pm

You could make a sound-hood, to place over an electric grinder. Honey, look what I made you for your birthday, so you can have your beauty sleep while I have my early morning espresso. Should be pretty easy to fashion with some sound-deadening insulation. With some hardwood veneer it could become a home woodworking project. Really fancy, and it could have hinges and open like a tabernacle :wink:

by **another_jim** on Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:04 pm

A hand grinder and lever machine will do quiet. Quick and quiet will cost a fortune. Quick, quiet, and great espresso will require a live in barista. The most time is spent in setup and cleanup; and the only way to avoid this is with a superauto (or aforesaid live-in barista). Home superautos have noisy grinders and pumps, commercial ones have quiet grinders and pumps. However, they start at around $3000.

I don't know what it would cost to have a barista show up daily at 4 in the morning to set you up on the way out.

by **Chert** on Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:34 pm

My children don't awaken when I grind (Zassenhaus) in the basement for my quiet chrome peacock to pull an espresso. The milk frothing for my wife's cappuccino increases the sound, but they usually don't awaken. I usually pull shots that do not have me missing Vivace, Intelli, Stump etc etc. I've done the residency thing though and wish I had had a quick, quiet, great shot to start some of those fascinating, grueling days, but I just had a moka pot and french press back then.

by **roastaroma** on Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:23 pm

Ciao again, Ben,

One factor to be considered is how noise from your kitchen is perceived by your wife in bed; the acoustics of your particular apt. could make a significant difference. If, for ex., she can be disturbed by the sound of an electric blender in the kitchen, then it's definitely the manual grinder for you. My GF doesn't seem to mind the Rocky in the morning, but maybe it's because she knows her cappuccino is being made! :wink:

by **shadowfax** on Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:56 pm

roastaroma wrote:If, for ex., she can be disturbed by the sound of an electric blender in the kitchen, then it's definitely the manual grinder for you.

Maybe I am guilty of having a dirt cheap blender and a very expensive grinder (yes, I am), but both my Super Jolly and my Robur are much quieter than any electric blender I've ever seen or used... until the doser thwacking starts. I've had the pleasure of using a Robur E, and its noise is almost totally innocuous, not to mention it's only on for 2-3 seconds to grind a shot. The K30 is another nicely quiet, ultra-fast grinder. I bet the Mazzer Major E is also pretty quiet, and I think if I had to be super-quiet I would break the budget and get a 2 group Lusso and a Major E, or, if I wanted to go cheaper, a 1 group Lusso and a K30. If I wanted to go ghetto cheap, I'd buy a used Super Jolly, duranium burrs for speed, a darkroom timer for 0.1s accuracy grinding, and of course the doserless conversion kit. I'd live with the stale grinds in the chute on account of the screen over the chute, and use the money I save on the setup to waste a third of a shot at every session. I'd probably get very sick of the WDT, but that's just because I'm spoiled, perhaps. The Super Jolly isn't as quiet as the titan doserless grinders, but it's better than a Mini or anything cheaper. The Vario will give it a run for the money, on quietness and footprint if nothing else.

by **acquavivaespresso** on Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:17 pm

for greatphotos and all concerned with a quick shot
Your Breville, or any other Espresso machine "ONLY" does the mechanical job of pumping water through correctly ground (and dosed) espresso coffee (probably with the same or similar vibe pump, as you folks in the forum call it), pressure builds up when water hits coffee : the coarser you grind, the faster your brew: try and grind finer till you get your "perfect 20-25 seconds brew (for a regular espresso, because the rule is 1 milliliter per second)
Believe me, most machines - more or less - do, or can do, a decent job, IT'S the variables : Blend, freshness, grinding, tamping, QUALITY OF WATER,experience etc. that give you a real good shot.
One friendly advice : do not mess about your grinder and just keep it for the one type of grinding you have adjusted for your preferred blend
(incidentally try and prefer conical burrs since the quality of grinding is so superior : you would be surprised comparing with flat burrs and discovering what better brew you can get )
Keep an eye on progress


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