I owned a steam machine in the late '80s, then I replaced it with a Starbuck's Barista Athena (I think it was made by Saeco) in 1997. I used it a lot and cared for it well, but lately it started leaking from the brew head. So I took it apart and tried to fix it and I just made it worse! I'm sure I could fix it given enough tinkering, but I'm ready to move on. I can afford a better machine now, so I've been researching them and reading reviews; there are a bewildering number of types and choices.

I've settled on an E61 group head heat exchanger type semi-automatic manual lever style machine. The Andreja Premium appeals to me, and so does the Vetrano rotary, which seems much like the Andreja except that it must be plumbed and it has the rotary pump instead of the vibration pump like the Andreja. Even more appealing to me is the Vibiemme Domobar Super Manual. I'm really leaning toward that one, although it will be a monster on the counter. It is available in both vibration and rotary versions.

The rotary pump looks more heavy duty and it seems like it would be more durable than the vibration style pump, and would be quieter too. Is that true? I realize that both the Vetrano and the Vibiemme Domobar rotary versions lack a tank and require plumbing in. Are there any other characteristics of the two pump types that might factor into a decision between them?

Also, does anyone know the dimensions, particularly the depth, of the rotary version of the Vibiemme Domobar? The one with the vibration motor and tank is 21 inches deep. My counters are only 23 inches deep, and while it will fit on my counter, I'm afraid it will seem a bit unwieldy.

The rotary pump will be much quieter than a vibe pump. You do not need to plumb it into your house water if you don't want to. You can put the water line in a bucket and be fine. Directly plumbing will save the time and trouble of refilling the tank, but it is the fast and easy solution. The machine's dimensions should be listed on the vendor's website. The Super fits on a standard countertop.

Thanks Aaron. I don't mind plumbing in. I would probably do that anyway if a machine could support it. I'm more interested in durability and ease of repair should the pump fail. Those vibration pumps are made mostly of plastic and they don't look very durable. I am not a big fan of plastic for high duty moving parts. On the other hand, the ULKA pump in my old Barista Athena is not the part that failed, so maybe pump durability isn't really an issue anyway.

I'll have to call the distributor to find out about the size (depth) of the Vibiemme rotary pump version. It is listed on the web site as the same depth as the version that has a tank, which doesn't make much sense to me. Removing the tank should allow for considerable space savings.

I'm also considering the Vibiemme Domobar Junior since it is smaller.

The Junior would be the smaller and cheaper version if the Super doesn't fit. They also use less expensive parts on the Junior so that the cost is less. So I would think that the Junior is plenty suited for a home use whereas the Super will also be suited for a light commercial use.

From the back of the machine to the front of the front leg it is 19.75 inches. So that is how much depth you need to have in the countertop. The driptray handle sticks out another 1.5 inches. The portafilter when in place is about 3 inches beyond that.

Width is about 12 inches minimum. That is with the steam and water wands in close. You will need some more space on either side if you want to use these.

Height is about 16 inches, but it is nice to have some space to put cups.

Hopefully that helps.

Thank you for the precise measurements, Aaron. I could fit the big boy on my counter, but the the Junior might still be more practical. I measured under my cabinets and I should have no problem fitting demitasse cup or my short and wide cappuccino cups on top. Filling the tank would be a challenge unless I use a funnel and flexible tubing.

To follow up on my previous post, I called and found that the cabinet size for the Vibiemme with the rotary pump is the same depth as the version with a tank and a vibration motor. The rotary motor is much larger, so there is no size savings to be had. That's a pity, but the rotary version might still be preferable to me for the noise reduction.

I wish there was somewhere I could go see one of these in operation.

There should be no difference in the quality of the espresso between a rotary machine and a vibe pump machine. The main difference is that vibe pumps are noisier, but are also cheaper, smaller, lighter and don't have to be plumbed in. While vibe pumps are mostly plastic and seem kind of flimsy compared to a rotary pump, I haven't heard of many people complaining about their vibe pumps failing prematurely. Even if they do fail, they're cheap to replace compared to a rotary pump, so I don't think that's a big concern.

That being said, rotary pumps are definitely more substantial and much quieter, so if you want a true commercial part in your machine and you don't like to listen to a loud pump, rotary is the way to go. I have a Quickmill Anita, the little sister of the Andreja and Vetrano, and the vibe pump is pretty loud first thing in the morning. I've also used a friend's Vetrano, and it's much quieter. The plumb in feature on the Vetrano is also very nice. If you can plumb in, you should definitely go that route for the convenience of not having to buy bottled water and not having to refill the tank every other day.

godshot wrote:
I wish there was somewhere I could go see one of these in operation.

Traveling to PA soon?

See The morning after with Vibiemme DoubleDomo for a rotary owner comment on hearing a quiet vibratory.

There are innumerable reasons why an espresso machine makes noise, the pump being but one.
All things equal, a rotary should be quieter.

It's funny how LOUD an espresso machine can seem early in the morning when you know that everyone else in the house is still asleep. Later in the day you hardly notice it. No matter what though, you have to deal with the noise of the grinder. There's just no good way around it short of lugging it out to the garage.

I recently learned a nice advantage of rotary is they don't have a duty cycle...

so if u want to flush your boiler (like i did after descaling), u can let it run continuously:

Rotary pump with blind filter - how long is safe?

(check out the post they link to about a 45 minute long backflush )