I had previously thought I knew my machine upgrade plans, but now I am having some doubts. I had assumed that a prosumer level dual boiler (Alex Duetto II) was the path I was going to go. I currently have a PID'd Silvia with all the the usual upgrades, adjustable OPV, V3 steam wand etc. Since I am the coffee nerd at work, my boss let me recommend the espresso gear to use in the office. We purchased the Malkonig K30 vario (Same grinder I have in my house) and the Alex Duetto II. I thought this would be a dream come true and remove upgraditis forever.

I have been using my old Silvia for 6 years now and with the help of gram scales, VST baskets, bottomless portafilters etc I can make some darn good drinks in my kitchen. After using the Duetto II for about 6 months there are some things that I feel are lacking, or just not to my preference. Steaming performance is the first and most major one. My office mates often prefer cappuccino's so this is a major issue. With either of the 2 steam tips supplied by Chris Coffee I was unable to reliably create microfoam. On my Silvia I can pour decent rosettas more often than not. I switched to an Insomniac 2 hole tip with the use of an adapter on the Duetto and I am now able to get OK microfoam on a more consistent basis. The steam seems to run out a bit towards the end of the process. Steaming for the occasional latte seems to be a difficult task to really get the milk swirling.

So I took to the internet to research and find the next machine to give me better, more consistent espresso and milk based drinks for my kitchen. The Elektra T1 seems to fit the bill. But I'm wondering if there is something "better" or if this machine is overkill for my needs.

Short List of my "needs"

1) 1-2 drinks per day. Maybe up to 4 on the weekends. Is it better to leave on 24/7, will a timer be OK given it's limited use in my kitchen? (Seems any machine in this level will do just fine for years to come)
2) Consistent espresso without a bunch of fuss. The flush routine has me wondering. (How difficult is it to determine where and when to stop the flush for a given temperature?)
3) Steam Performance. Seems like the T1 is a steaming beast and will be able to handle as much as I can throw at it.
4) Plumb in. Nice feature to have /future-proof (T1 will require running a 20 amp service to the kitchen outlet)
5) Allure of the GS3. How much "better" is the GS3 compared to the T1? Seems like the GS3 takes care of the issues of the Duetto II at a much higher price.
6) Appeal of volumetric dosing. I like the volumetric dosing that my PID gave to my Silvia and prefer that to the lever on the duetto. T1 will fit this bill as well.

I'm mostly looking for what it's like to live with the Elektra T1. I know that both the T1 and the GS3 are able to produce top notch espresso. Just trying to figure out which machine quirks I can live with, and which machine will be the best for years to come. Any recommendations, stories, pitfalls etc are welcome.

Thanks for looking.

If you are seriously thinking about spending $6000 + on an espresso machine, I would seriously recommend you consider a calling Chris Coffee or other reseller with a showroom and making an appointment to try it out and compare to other machines. Bring a bunch of your own coffee as well! The trip will cost the wallet a bit, but not as much as living with a $6500 machine you aren't happy with.

Why not a commercial DB at half the price of a GS/3?

La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi II or the S1 Dream (+LCD control screen, +PID, +integrated timer).

Choice of 15/20A (user configured). Volumetric dosing. Excellent steaming power. Great temperature stability (even without the PID on the Dream). Top notch cup quality. Excellent construction. Proven machine. Only caveat: 53mm group (not a problem in itself but may be perceived as an issue to some). You might miss the below-boiling hot water wand of the GS/3...

Personally I avoided the Duetto. I dislike the design choices they made:
- a water pump (that will eventually leak) should not be on top of its motor (Chris' Coffee has recognized this potential issue by having a drain tube added)
- locating the PID in the hottest spot of the case, over the steam boiler (Chris' Coffee has recognized this potential issue by having more vents put in the top of the case)

I second the Vivaldi, especially if you can get it plumbed in with a 20 amp line. You won't run out of steam for sure on a 20amp circuit. I have a Mini Vivaldi that I use for small catering purposes I'm able to keep up even with just a 15 amp line. DB is just no fuss and the Vivaldi steams beautifully with their 4 hole tip. I've steamed on the Duetto and you're right, it's a bit weak and starts dying off after a few drinks in a row. I used to have a Isomac Millenium with that 2 hole tip and it didn't steam great either.

With the rest of the money, you can buy awesome espresso from around the country for years to come, or take a vacation! But if you can't figure out what to do with the left over $4k, I'll be happy to take it off your hands

In response to the comment above, I am sure the Vivaldi and Dream are great machines, but I'm pretty sure they are considered Prosumer class not commercial. They were designed primarily as home machines. That said, I don't think commercial is always better than prosumer at home, although it is probably more durable.

As for the T1, I have one and love it. I considered machines like the Duetto and Vivaldi, but I was worried I'd want to upgrade. The T1 has fixed any urge to upgrade. I've used a GS/3 quite a bit and it is a great machine, but I don't like it any better than the T1. In spite of having played with many commercial DB's I haven't used the 2k-3k Prosumer DB's so perhaps it would be true of those, too. I have no doubt they are great machines.

In terms of the OP's concerns about the T1 (or ones raised lower in the thread) I don't find the water dance at all objectionable. It is easy and not especially time consuming. It does, of course, was more water than a DB uses, but take a shower that lasts 1 second shorter each day and you've probably made up the difference.

I have less control over temp than a PID DB, but not enough less that I think it is an issue in the cup. Remember that even with a PID the temp of the readout will have an offset from the surface of the coffee that isn't totally constant and there will be an offset from the top of the puck to the bottom no matter what and that offset will change based on the dose. In other words I think there is a perception of more control even with a PID DB that is greater than the actual control. I can get my water in the ballpark of the right temperature and I think that is good enough and that other variables are more important, but not everyone agrees with me on that. (For example I met a guy who owns a Duetto and an Elektra and he claimed the best shots off the Elektra were far better than the best off the Duetto, but that the variance was greater on the Elektra. He may be right or he might be wrong or it might all depend on the barista).

It is also easier on an HX to test the same coffee at a bunch of different temps because you don't have to adjust the PID, wait for the machine to reach equilibrium etc, you just adjust your flush and go.

So how is this for not helpful - I love my T1. I am glad I bought it and don't have any desire to upgrade, but I do admit that there is a real chance that I might have loved the prosumer DB's just as much if that is the path I had gone down, but I'll never know because I am sticking with my T1.

I am curious about your comment on the steam running out on the Duetto. What temp/pressure are you running the steam boiler at? Other comments I have read about the Duetto complain its steam is too strong.

da gino wrote:In response to the comment above, I am sure the Vivaldi and Dream are great machines, but I'm pretty sure they are considered Prosumer class not commercial. They were designed primarily as home machines.

I just want to address this one point. This is false 100%.

The Original La Spaziale Vivaldi S1, before Chris coffee turned it into the killer machine it is now, was already an established, commercial 1 group dual boiler. Fully NSF and UL certified. Its 110/20amp, with a HUGE steam boiler, and a tiny brew boiler. It will keep up, without fail, in any scenario where a single group machine would be used.

The current machines, are still fully NSF and UL certified. The Vibe Pump/Pourover models have smaller steam boilers, so Idk about them, but the plumbed in/20amp rotary models are still very much a commercial 1 group machine, designed first and foremost, for use in an art gallery, library, or a small restaurant. Chris has just added a bunch of features which make the machine much more desirable to the home enthusiast. While they are a very popular choice for HOME users, the full size Vivaldi remains a 1group commercial machine.

After using the Duetto II for about 6 months there are some things that I feel are lacking, or just not to my preference. Steaming performance is the first and most major one. My office mates often prefer cappuccino's so this is a major issue. With either of the 2 steam tips supplied by Chris Coffee I was unable to reliably create microfoam. On my Silvia I can pour decent rosettas more often than not. I switched to an Insomniac 2 hole tip with the use of an adapter on the Duetto and I am now able to get OK microfoam on a more consistent basis. The steam seems to run out a bit towards the end of the process. Steaming for the occasional latte seems to be a difficult task to really get the milk swirling.

Are you running the duetto in 15amp or 20amp?

If you're running in 15amp, Im not overly surprised. On 15amp, you DO need to pay attention to the cycle of the heating elements, because if the brew boiler element kicks on when your trying to steam, the steam boiler will drop below 1Bar during steaming. Especially using fast steam tips, which, even though Chris bills them as easier to use for microfoam, they're still fast(and easy to use). And the Isomac two hole(the one which looks like a straight tube)has actually really big holes, it actually pulls more steam out of the boiler than the 4hole microfoam tips chris sells.

However, using the four hole tips Chris coffee sells, if you pay attention to the heating element cycle and make sure the brew boiler won't kick on when your steaming, and for extra pressure, run the steam boiler fully cranked at 260F, you will have all the steam power you need. I have no problem steaming enough milk at one time for two 13oz lattes(basically its my 33oz pitcher filled as much as I can without spinning milk out of it), and for my everyday cappuccino and machiatto duties, its no problem at all.

However, on 20amp, its a different story. You should be able to steam all day long on 20amp, because both heating elements can be fully energized at the same time. Just match the steam tip to the machine. The four hole microfoam tips from Chris are good, I imagine the EPNW sproline tips will excel as well.

Basically, the Duetto on 15amp just needs a little more attention. So either steam milk before the shot, or make sure the brew boiler element just turned off when you start steaming. With this in mind, its a VERY quick steamer.

On 20amp, steam away.

Another vote for the Vivaldi!!! I rescued mine from a shop closing down almost 5 years ago and after cleaning her up, she's been running great since with almost 24/7 operation. Definitely a commercial machine with all necessary certs. Feels like I could steam a gallon of milk before I ran out. Ok so exaggeration I guess seeing that I have never tried but steaming power has never been a problem even on 15amp line and making milk drinks for the whole family of 5. Temp is super stable and my general flush after being idle all night is 2-4oz. I have the S1V1 model and while you need the manual to figure out how to adjust everything I imagine that the DREAM makes this stupid easy, but I'll never know because this machine will probably outlast me.

Having been so accustomed to a DB machine for so long now there is no way you could convince me to go to a HX machine with a complicated flush pattern and temp surfing. Also I run my machine off a flojet and 5 gallon bottle so water is at a premium. I also only allow milk into my diet occasionally so having the option to turn off the steam boiler and just run the brew boiler saves me money and wear and tear on the machine.

Yeah changing the temp on the Version 1 Vivaldi is a little bit of a pain, but not terrible. Its hillarious that they thought you'd need temps as high as you can go on the original Vivaldi. The VII temp adjustment is pie. Even if you want to use the extended temp mode(go three degrees higher or lower than what the front panel shows), its just a few button presses.

The Rotary Vivaldi's are definitely wicked steamers. Its quite a large steam boiler compared to other machines in its price point, and it shows in how quick it steams milk. Idk what steam tip comes on it now, it might be the smaller .9mm holed tip. I had a couple steam tips with the Vivaldi, including the stock one which was 1.2mm holes IIRC. Using that tip for classic size cappucinos, its lightning fast.


After owning two HX machines and Two DB machines(In the order of HX,DB,HX,DB), I can honestly say, given the choice, Ill choose DB every time. I had to sell the Vivaldi due to not being able to run plumbed in any longer, and simply didn't have the $$ to get another DB, so I bought pretty much the same machine I had before the Vivaldi(An Andreja over an Anita). Ill defend an HXs ability to make good coffee any day of the week, but using a dual boiler, for me, is far more enjoyable. I dont have to make the machine work for what I want it to do. Im free to explore the temperature range of whatever coffee/blend I choose to use, with complete confidence that the temps I want are the temps I get. To me, a dual boiler is an upgrade from an HX. YMMV.