I know that sometimes these types of comparison weigh much heavier into subjectivity rather than objectivity, but I'm hoping to get some feedback.

I plan to plumb-in whichever espresso machine I purchase. The Profitec doesn't have a drain in the drip tray, but that isn't a deal breaker for me - the stainless steel boilers along with the shot timer (how come now one else has integrated one of these before?!?!?) do seem like an added benefit. My biggest question is as to the Profitec's functionality considering it is only a 15 Amp machine. I have a dedicated 20 Amp circuit I'm going to be plugging in my grinder and espresso machine into, and from what I understand would allow the Vetrano 2B to operate both the steam and brew boiler at the same time. If I had the Vetrano machine on a 15A circuit, Mary from Chris Coffee told me you'd want to steam your milk first and then brew your espresso. If you do it the other way around you sacrifice some steam power.

My concern is that the Profitec has even larger combined boiler capacities and thus pulls more wattage. Since this system only operates at 15A I assume both boilers won't be operating at the same time. Is this a correct assumption? How will that effect my warm-up times and operation of the machine?

Another factor that is weighing on the decision is which vendor carries which machines. If I go with the Profitec, I'll be purchasing from WLL and will likely combo with a grinder to save some $$$, which would be the Ceado E92 (as of now). If I go for the Vetrano 2B, I'll go through Chris Coffee and pick up a Compak K10/E10 with the machine to get the best deal.

Any info and firsthand experience is welcome!!

Joe Fish

I am pretty sure I want the QM but have to admit the features and German engineering of the Profitec are very appealing. Would love to hear others thoughts as well.

I've been running a Profitec for several months, and can't find a flaw with it. I brew and steam simultaneously all the time, without issue. The electronics controlling the dual PIDs do their magic, and both boilers come up to temperature (200 and 262) in less than 30 minutes on a standard 15 amp circuit. A couple of espressos and two giant lattes in quick succession show no evidence of straining the machine.

FYI you can run the Profitec in 20 Amp mode. I have been doing so as I have a dedicated 20 amp circuit and it has been running fine. In the review on the main page Dan provided a copy of the manual for setting the PID which explains how to change that setting.

I also ran it for weeks in 15 amp mode and never noticed an issue with performance even after pulling shots and using the hot water tap for cafe americano. Recovery is very fast, in fact even in 15 Amp mode it seemed faster to me than a Duetto v2 and a VBM DD (yes I have owned both).

I have been using it several times daily and it runs perfectly and give me very consistent results.

I also have it plumbed in on the supply side and have been intending to run a drain from the drip tray by drilling it out myself. I started a thread a few weeks back asking for input but never heard anything.

All said and done this is my favorite machine so far.

wsfarrell wrote:I've been running a Profitec for several months, and can't find a flaw with it. I brew and steam simultaneously all the time, without issue. The electronics controlling the dual PIDs do their magic, and both boilers come up to temperature (200 and 262) in less than 30 minutes on a standard 15 amp circuit. A couple of espressos and two giant lattes in quick succession show no evidence of straining the machine.

smite wrote:FYI you can run the Profitec in 20 Amp mode. I have been doing so as I have a dedicated 20 amp circuit and it has been running fine. In the review on the main page Dan provided a copy of the manual for setting the PID which explains how to change that setting.

I also ran it for weeks in 15 amp mode and never noticed an issue with performance even after pulling shots and using the hot water tap for cafe americano. Recovery is very fast, in fact even in 15 Amp mode it seemed faster to me than a Duetto v2 and a VBM DD (yes I have owned both).

I have been using it several times daily and it runs perfectly and give me very consistent results.

I also have it plumbed in on the supply side and have been intending to run a drain from the drip tray by drilling it out myself. I started a thread a few weeks back asking for input but never heard anything.

All said and done this is my favorite machine so far.

Thanks for the input! I was talking with a salesperson at WLL today and he said it can only be ran in 15A mode... so I have a feeling I'll have to talk with someone a bit more knowledgeable since it obviously can. As long as it ships with a 20A plug then I'm set. And from what I've been told the voltage management of the boilers by the PID is exceptional in 15A mode on the Profitec.

I think I'm sold on the Profitec based on everything I've seen.... I'm a bit disappointed Chris Coffee doesn't carry it because I've been really impressed with the interaction I've had with them and would like to give them my business. I'll likely have to call Mark at WLL and work on the price I was quoted today.

Joe Fish

smite wrote:FYI you can run the Profitec in 20 Amp mode. I have been doing so as I have a dedicated 20 amp circuit and it has been running fine. In the review on the main page Dan provided a copy of the manual for setting the PID which explains how to change that setting....

Fluffeepuff wrote:Thanks for the input! I was talking with a salesperson at WLL today and he said it can only be ran in 15A mode... so I have a feeling I'll have to talk with someone a bit more knowledgeable since it obviously can. As long as it ships with a 20A plug then I'm set. And from what I've been told the voltage management of the boilers by the PID is exceptional in 15A mode on the Profitec..

The specs show a 1200 watt element for the brew boiler and 1400 watts for the steam boiler. Even if you leave out the draw of the pump and PIDs (~150 watts) with both heating elements on at the same time you are still way over the limit of a 20 amp circuit (21.6 amps @ 120 volts; 23.6 amps @ 110 volts). Either the specs are wrong, or you aren't able to run both boilers at their rating at the same time on a 110v machine; 220 volt, sure.

Which explains the 30 minutes quoted here.

wsfarrell wrote:I've been running a Profitec for several months, and can't find a flaw with it. I brew and steam simultaneously all the time, without issue. The electronics controlling the dual PIDs do their magic, and both boilers come up to temperature (200 and 262) in less than 30 minutes on a standard 15 amp circuit. A couple of espressos and two giant lattes in quick succession show no evidence of straining the machine.

30 minutes for both boilers running would be incredibly slow but totally understandable when running one at a time. The brew boiler is probably up to temp in ~12 minutes and the steam boiler about ~15 minutes later. Given one at a time - ~27 minutes.

If this machine gets redesigned and incorporates a HX feed from the steam boiler into the brew boiler it can severely cut down on that 1200 watt element to allow the machine to run both at the same time. Profitec Pro 700 v2 anyone?

uscfroadie wrote:30 minutes for both boilers running would be incredibly slow but totally understandable when running one at a time. The brew boiler is probably up to temp in ~12 minutes and the steam boiler about ~15 minutes later. Given one at a time - ~27 minutes.

If this machine gets redesigned and incorporates a HX feed from the steam boiler into the brew boiler it can severely cut down on that 1200 watt element to allow the machine to run both at the same time. Profitec Pro 700 v2 anyone?

So looking at the Profitec Pro 700 PID settings that Dan posted in the review, it looks like the parameter F.02 is recommended to be set at 7, where the brew boiler is heated first and then the steam boiler. Changing the F.02 setting to 5 allows both boilers to be heated simultaneously, which I'm assuming is what Smite meant when he said he's running the machine in 20A mode???

But Merle brings up a good point - both heaters can't be pulling maximum wattage at the same time (setting 5) and keep the current under 20A on a 120V line. So does the PID control how the wattage is distributed when both boilers are being heated simultaneously? Otherwise I'm not sure how it would work unless you're using a 220V machine.

Anyway, I don't see a problem with running the machine in 15A mode, although I would prefer a configuration that heats up to temperature as quickly as possible. An appliance timer is most likely in my future. I would imagine that the Vetrano 2B heats both boilers to temp quicker in 20A mode than the Profitec in 15A mode, is that logical?

Interestingly enough, Profitec calls the machine a "Heat Exchanger Espresso Machine Pro 700" on their website (http://www.profitec-espresso.com/en/pro ... o-700.html) but then just lists it as a dual boiler with no HX feed. I'm guessing a hold-over from their Pro 500 and a typo..?

I could be way off here, but I believe "simultaneously" means "alternating in rapid succession." So the brew boiler is pulsed for 5 seconds, then the steam boiler is pulsed for 5 seconds, then the brew boiler is pulsed for 5 seconds, etc.

This is somewhat corroborated by the PID displays, which rise in temperature together. (As opposed to, say, the brew boiler going to 200 and then the steam boiler going to 262.)

Makes logical sense to me that this is how it operates, since I just confirmed with Mark Jackson at WLL that the machine is in fact ONLY 15A (and only has a 15A plug).

wsfarrell wrote:I could be way off here, but I believe "simultaneously" means "alternating in rapid succession." So the brew boiler is pulsed for 5 seconds, then the steam boiler is pulsed for 5 seconds, then the brew boiler is pulsed for 5 seconds, etc.

This is somewhat corroborated by the PID displays, which rise in temperature together. (As opposed to, say, the brew boiler going to 200 and then the steam boiler going to 262.)

I think the issue at topic here is the ability to brew and steam at the same time using full power (instead of them heating at the same time). With my Vetrano 2B on 15a, If i try to do both my steam power will be inhibited when the brew boiler needs the power. However, in 20a mode I am led to believe that they would both be able to work at the same time using full power. I don't have a 20 amp outlet to verify though.