Portaspresso Rossa PG or HC? - Page 2

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
doppiodan
Posts: 24
Joined: 12 years ago

#11: Post by doppiodan »

With regards to the soupy pucks on the HC: is it possible to slightly underfill the chamber so that at the end of the shot the puck is purged with air, like what happens with an Aeropress?

I, too, am on the fence between these two and between the two Portapresso grinders for a future purchase. This would be a factor as it affects ease of cleanup.

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vberch
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#12: Post by vberch replying to doppiodan »

Yes, certainly. You can either underfill the chamber or don't unscrew the bolt all the way. If you are consistent on the volume of shots, say you know you are pulling a ristretto and you need less water, unscrew the bolt only so much.

If you want to be very precise about it, you can count how many revolutions you need to turn the lever (before filling it with water). I usually eyeball it and I am a few revolutions within where I need to be.

coffeedom
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Joined: 14 years ago

#13: Post by coffeedom »

It's hard not to be on the fence about these two devices, as they are so similar. Although I use the PG more often, I pull out the HC when I have a coffee that I want to do a long and slow preinfusion with, when I want to grind superfine and have a very soft shot.

There are a couple things to consider for you personally: the PG needs to be pumped. I use a Lezyne CNC pump and can get the cylinder up to pressure in 4 pumps, about 5 seconds. That is faster than winding/unwinding the HC. But it's also a big ugly pump sitting around. Faster but more fiddly and more unsightly.

The HC has threads which require much more care. Whether you lubricate them with water (as recommended) or food-safe silicone (which I do as I find this a far superior solution) you still need to put time into caring for the HC and spend more time keeping the device clean and dry.

Overall, the HC requires more time to clean between shots and to maintain. Every now and then, you will want to take the HC apart and do a little cleaning. You will need tools to do this, and then be careful in handling anything threaded. It's very manageable, but with the PG there is none of that. It's the simplest possible device, even more ingenious than the HC.

Again, if you have hard water where you are, I feel one should get the PG. Very hard water is a real enemy of the HC and the threaded parts. The PG is easy to open up and keep perfectly clean, shot to shot, which you will need to do especially with calcification and corrosion which will happen quickly with a hard water source. If your water is soft, then the HC is also easy to maintain, though still not as simple as the PG.

samuellaw178
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#14: Post by samuellaw178 »

Nice to see a lively discussion going on!
coffeedom wrote:Hey Sam, good to see you!

....Or as was said earlier, might as well get both! A few of us did lol!
Hi Dom!

Good to see you too, hope your Rossa is serving you well! Yeah, the only way to find out is to get both (even then it' not guaranteed you'll know what you want)! :D
darokz wrote:Ok thanks ! I guess Im gonna choose PG at first. What is the best shock pump to go with ?
After trying a few shock pumps, the design as shown in the photo worked best for me. The tube length is longer(pumps faster), the handle is aluminium (avoid the one with plastic handle) and has a max pressure of 20 bar(40 bar may be tempting but it may deliver a smaller volume/stroke). Others may have other recommendation though.


doppiodan wrote:With regards to the soupy pucks on the HC:
You can get a fairly solid moist puck on the HC if you do what Vlad mentioned. But like me, if you're using the pressure adapter instead of HC-P(with built-in gauge), a coffee soup is guaranteed and inevitable no matter what you do. That's because there's an additional amount of water that never gets pushed out. In that regards, I'm not sure if HC-P has the same issue.

I live in soft water area and actually thought HC is easier to maintain. How funny that the same device can get different opinion from different users. :P

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baldheadracing
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#15: Post by baldheadracing »

doppiodan wrote:With regards to the soupy pucks on the HC: is it possible to slightly underfill the chamber so that at the end of the shot the puck is purged with air, like what happens with an Aeropress?

I, too, am on the fence between these two and between the two Portapresso grinders for a future purchase. This would be a factor as it affects ease of cleanup.
My experience on the HC regular, with separate pressure gauge: after pulling the shot, I wind it almost all the way down (all the way down is the storage position so that the piston seal no longer seals and coffee will back flow past the piston, which leads to more clean-up). I leave it like that while I drink my shot.

When I go to clean up: If the pressure gauge is not installed, then the puck will not be soupy. If the pressure gauge is installed, then, as mentioned previously, there will be residual water and a soupy puck.

I leave the pressure gauge out of my travel kit for this reason.

Also, FYI, the Bonavita travel kettle - just slightly over-filled - works well with the HC. With the pressure gauge in place, it is tight ;-).
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

doppiodan
Posts: 24
Joined: 12 years ago

#16: Post by doppiodan »

It seems that a lower starting water level in the HC would result in a dry puck since the piston would still have a seal against the cylinder walls with all aged exhausted into a drip cup, no?

In any case, that is only one aspect. When the Lezyne CNC pump is mentioned, are you talking a floor pump or the cool mini-floor travel pump (nothing like a shock pump but rather the tire pump they make for traveling cyclists)?

I am a big fan of Lezyne and will only be buying their pumps for my bikes. How hard are you pumping and up to what pressure at 4 pumps? It's quite a bit of effort to get a road bike tire to 110 psi using my Lezyne mini pump so while it may be quicker to pump the PG, cranking the HC may be relaxing?
I wish there was a way to try these out near me! Such cool devices. They are so close to what I would design and make myself if I had the time and tools. Hats off to Ross for such swank machines!

coffeedom
Posts: 205
Joined: 14 years ago

#17: Post by coffeedom »

I use the mini CNC floor drive, and it's pretty awesome. The cylinder already has some pressure in it, maybe 3-4 bar, then I pump 4-5 times to bring it up to 11-12 bar (The pump is rated to 11 bar but you can go a bit over). The full-sized CNC Floor Pump is probably even better as it can go to 15 bar and it has two feet, making it stabler. Pumping doesn't require much force until the last pump, which requires some push.

I also have a 40 bar Cannondale pump as a backup which is also good and better for travel. It takes a lot more pumps to get it up to pressure but the pumps are fast and easy. I prefer the Lezyne myself.

Cranking the HC is fun too, but since I don't mind doing the pumping required to charge the PG cylinder, I prefer it overall, as there is zero effort after the shot, no unwinding or anything, just unscrew cylinder, rinse and dry the PG, rinse the basket, done.

BTW the lower starting level on the HC means the you need to compress the air inside before pressure builds up. Water is not compressible so if the HC is full, the pressure will build as soon as you start cranking. With air inside, the pressure will build after quite a few cranks, which will lower shot volume considerably, as you will run out of thread too early if there is too much air.

I have found that no matter what you do you will have to live with wet pucks on the HC, unless you are doing a single low volume shot in a single basket, in which case you can leave some air inside to get the dry puck.

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baldheadracing
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#18: Post by baldheadracing »

doppiodan wrote:... , cranking the HC may be relaxing?...
"Relaxing" has yet to enter my mind when cranking the HC.

BTW, you really want to consider getting the optional tripod.

I am on the fence about keeping mine. (I only bought mine a few months ago from mfortin.)
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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akiley
Posts: 115
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#19: Post by akiley »

Looking at my pressure gauge on my HC-P this morning, I should correct my previous statement about being able to hold pressure within 1 bar. Turns out I can easily hold pressure within .25 bar.

The pressure gauge on the side of the HC-P has another use. It helps to hold the unit from twisting in your grip. I let the gauge hit my wrist (on my grip hand) and it blocks the unit from twisting during cranking. More relaxing.

Wet puck doesn't seem much of an issue. I unscrew the bottomless basket just an inch off the sink with the unit upright, and it drops along with some leftover water. Rinse out the main unit, crank in a few turns and put it away. Sometimes I just let the grounds go down the drain, but mostly carry the basket to the trash with a cup under it to catch the drips.

Lastly, with the HC-P you generally need a second cup ready under the unit when cranking a shot. When you get to the desired shot volume or weight, you quickly put a catch cup under the stream. I've been cranking down most of the way to fill the catch cup more. Makes a fun added drip coffee sample you can sip after the shot. Should taste bad/over-extracted, but doesn't seem to.

Anyway, only owning a HC-P I never desired the other model. I love to be able to come home to a cold HX machine, and be drinking a shot out of the HC-P within 4 minutes. It gets more use than my Quickmill Andreja and I think it's a superior shot.

mauijer
Posts: 317
Joined: 10 years ago

#20: Post by mauijer »

I have PG and love it. Easy clean up, easy control. Decided to get the PG after a wrist injury and realized cranking might be difficult some day, but turning a knob would always be doable... I also use a car 12v tire inflator or a floor compressor which fills my air cylinder in about 20seconda so again it's an ease of use issue. My only complaint is the air cylinder can get pretty hot during the heating process which is uncomfortable. However many have found ways around this and I just use a towel. Overall amazing product and couldn't be happier w Ross. I wish I would have bought the HCP additionally to compare but I won't be selling my PG. Btw I'm using rosco mini and the combo beats out my quickmill Silvano/vario home setup on most blends
Hope that helps