I have had the Francis Francis X5 for the past 2 years or so, and I am ready to get a new machine. I got the X5 from Illy's website, as part of an "espresso membership" (where I commit to buying coffee monthly and get a deep discount on the machine).

So when I decided to get a new machine, I thought I would go through Illy again. the only machine they offer that is not "ESE POD ONLY" is the Pasquini Livietta T2.

I am having a hard time finding any good reviews ( I found 1 or 2) and then the reviews i read here are kind of too technical for me, but it seems like the general consensus is not good.

I would be getting the T2 machine for about $630. I drink espresso daily, 2 doppios in the a.m. and 1 doppio sometimes around 4 pm. Occasionally I make foam for guests. I want a machine that is easier to navigate than the X5, relatively counter space friendly (I live in NYC where counter space is at a premium) and I want to make a nice perfect espresso with real "crema" -- why does everyone here seem so down on the T2? And what recommendations would you have for a different machine?

THANKS ALL!

The Pasquini is a dual thermoblock machine, one for heating the espresso water, and one for the steam. A thermoblock is an instant heater with relatively poor controls, and in the 110V US, inadequate heating capacity. Thermoblock machines usually cost around $120 to $250, are made by Krups or Capresso and make poor espresso and steamed milk.

Granted, this one is a rebadged Quickmill, is of higher quality, and makes semi-competent espresso. But the basic flaws are still there (Quickmill itself is loath to sell these dual thermoblock models in the US). You can buy two Krups machines, set one on espresso and one on steam, and save yourself $700. Alternatively, for $1K, you can buy one of four heat exchanger machines which make good espresso and have real steaming power, the Nuova Simonelli Oscar, the Expobar Office, and two Bezzera models. A few hundred more will get you the pick of a dozen or so machines.

That's why so bad.

Of course, you can get this gem for $400 off, if you sign a contract to buy lots of stale coffee. That changes everything.

another_jim wrote:You can buy two Krups machines, set one on espresso and one on steam, and save yourself $700.

Jim, thanks for my morning humor. Laughed so hard I almost had coffee coming out of my nose - that would not have been good. Oh, wouldn't that be a QTDU (Quad Thermoblock/Dual Use) machine?

Agree with Jim on all accounts. Also, seems like you are drinking pre-ground Illy. You'd be amazed at the difference if you moved up to even something like a Le'Lit machine with matching grinder (same as what you'd spend on the Pasquini) and used fresh beans (cheaper than what you are paying for 6-month old (or more) Illy per pound). In short, you'd wonder why you waited so long to make the jump. We'll even give you good recommendations for blends and roasters if you let us know what Illy you normally drink.

Now, to see for yourself, try to find someone locally (relatively speaking) that has a proper setup so you can possibly taste the difference before you make a decision. If not, you'll just have to trust us.

Good luck.

Thanks so much!

So I usually drink Illy dark roast.

So a semi-automatic machine + grinder.

And will cans of Illy whole bean also be stale? What suggestion do you make for procuring fresh coffee beans for grinding? Store in fridge or freezer (a debate Ive always wondered about).

Does Le'Lit PL51 seem like a good choice? + a burr grinder? Any other suggestions?

Honestly I'd be happy NOT spending $600, if I don't have to - thought I was getting a deal... but now I've been schooled!

At the risk of another schooling... What about the Breville machines? One has a built in grinder, for $599

Also want to say THANKS again for helping me avoid the livietta / illy trap. I'm definitely interested in going another route now...THANK YOU! Definitely planning to switch to fresh beans and a grinder.

I should also say I don't know if I am ready for the machines that require a lot of monitoring - I am definitely interested in finding the best semi-automatic, something that maybe a true barista might find too crude, but one for an amateur, like myself, who may not be as demanding as a true barista. I dont want something bad, just looking for a balance between quality, ease of use, and price. I think the users here are very advanced and have eveolved a very exacting standard, so please don't think me an espresso luddite - I am just looking for the best thing for my needs.

Again, thank you both for your replies! And any additional suggestions are welcome!

It is kind of ironic that "machines that do not require a lot of monitoring" also tend to be more expensive machines. From the standpoint of being able to do a good job with minimum fuss, machines in the $1,000 to $2,500 range are generally better for ease of use and would be preferable for beginnners. They are, however, seldom machines that the first time buyer is likely to purchase. If there were a good, low hassle, separate steaming source many of the 60s era levers like the Caravel and the Peppina at around $350 would fit the bill nicely. Generally, it seems, the Gaggia, Rancilio and le'Lit machines are most often mentioned as good choices. I've been using a Gaggia Classic at my daughter's house from time-to-time. With a PID it is reasonably easy to get good shots, but not as easy as double boiler or the more forgiving HX machines that sell for higher prices.

THANKS!

PS- I should say that I only rarely use steam wand, only for guests, as I just have espresso on a daily basis. So I think that "temperature surfing" is not a major issue for me ---

Le'Lit PL041?

newyorkny2010 wrote:And any additional suggestions are welcome!

I recommend reading a few representative reviews; they will cover all the tradeoffs. For example, the Ponte Vecchio Lusso (spring-powered lever), Expobar Brewtus III (double boiler), Quickmill Alexia (single boiler for "espresso purist"), Vibiemme Domobar Super (HX espresso machine). Even if you only read the conclusions, you'll be better informed to ask the right questions. You may also want to search a bit, most of the questions shoppers pose have been asked and answered many times.

THANKS TO ALL WHO TOOK THE TIME TO REPLY.

I think I will return to the minor leagues.

Enjoy & Happy President's Day.