Owners: How did you choose your espresso machine? Sellers: How did you choose which to carry?

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
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kjcaufield
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Joined: 10 years ago

#1: Post by kjcaufield »

OK, super overwhelmed and frustrated and I am hoping someone can chime in. The hubby and I are ready to buy an espresso machine and we have been now for over a year. We immediately decided on a Baratza Vario grinder, but we have not been able to narrow in on a machine.

So my question is - dear prosumer semi-automatic espresso machine owners - how did you choose your machine? Sellers, if you are reading this, how/why did you choose the machines you carry and how do you direct a buyer to a certain machine?

(Since I know someone will ask - the question for us is not budget but justification. We are currently using an Aeropress and a Hario hand grinder, and make 'aeropressos' 2-4x a week for the 2 of us (waaay to much hand grinding!). We drink both espresso and milk drinks and switch beans frequently. We purchase most of our coffees fresh from local/third-wave roasters. We took an espresso/latte class this summer and both of us would like something that we could do latte art with. My understanding is that single boilers can be temperamental, so we are looking at a HX or DB. We both love the La Marzocco G3S (this was bolstered by the fact that the coffee shop we took the class at taught on this machine), but neither of us see it as cost effective to put down $7k on a machine used occasionally - unless we win the lotto :D ). Hubby would prefer something that has both a reservoir and is plumbable (which would be the Expobar, Rocket, or ???), but I don't think that is a make or break feature. I'd like quick and easy functionality in a machine that is relatively portable (like the Nuova Simonelli Oscar), whereas he tends to be an experimenter/tinkerer - so a DB? (one site classified him an alpha user and me a beta user ;) ). We have looked around online, watched videos, read threads & blogs, talked with baristas, and ARGH! I really wish there was a website where I could check 'this is what I want on a machine' and up would pop the machines available and the vendors that sell them to help people narrow in on what to buy. :shock: . Every machine has its pros & cons - I just wish I could figure out what they are!)

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keno
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#2: Post by keno »

Sounds to me like you are actually a lot further along in the selection process than you perhaps realize.

If you do milk based drinks in addition to espresso then you can rule out the single boiler machines. So that leaves HX and DB machines. Read the threads and watch the HB newbie videos. The difference comes down to temperature stability and ease of use (DB advantage) vs ability to manage temperature on the fly (HX advantage).

You also mention a desire for portability, but I would encourage you to forget about this. It's no fun moving around a 50 lb plus machine. Smaller lighter machines will not give you the temp stability or ability to pull multiple shots in succession. You mention a desire for a machine with a reservoir that can also be plumbed in. This drastically shrinks the number of DB and HX machines that satisfy your criteria so you might start there.

Beyond that a lot of it comes down to preferences regarding ergonomics, aesthetics, size, preferred vendor availability and price.

If you can see and play around with the contenders in person you'll make the process a lot easier on yourself. Don't overthink it.

kwantfm
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Joined: 11 years ago

#3: Post by kwantfm »

I've owned three machines.

The first was a Lelit Combi. Basic single boiler dual purpose machine which suited me fine for the first four years. It had a built in grinder. In the end the grinder was basic, temperature stability not great and waiting time to steam milk frustrating. I first bought a Mazzer Mini E grinder which immediately improved the quality of espresso and then I upgraded machine to...

... an ECM Technika Profi IV. Vibration pump, HX machine with really good temperature stability and excellent steaming capacity. It was all the machine I felt that I needed until I got frustrated trying to get some enzymatic and acid nuance from the single origins that I was roasting. I started becoming a little obsessed about temperature and tested the capabilities of a dual boiler using multiple temperatures on beans that I had roasted (I must have seemed a little crazy as I brought my own grinder to the shop as well). The improvement in espresso flavour was immense and so the latest upgrade was to...

... a Profitec Pro 700 (E61 dual boiler). I'm very pleased with this machine. I can't think of much else that I'd be wanting this side of a Slayer, Speedster or Idrocompresso.
LMWDP #602

sashaman
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#4: Post by sashaman »

Ken, can you explain what you mean by
ability to manage temperature on the fly (HX advantage)
I have an HX at home and I use a Breville DB at work, and changing the temp is MUCH easier on the BDB (just a button click) than on my Expobar. Yes, I can change my flush routine on the Expobar, but that tends to affect shot temp stability, not just my target temp.

To the original poster, if you can afford it I'd go with a double boiler machine. There are many, many threads on this site that talk about how to manage HX temperature with your flush routine. For DB machines with a PID, you'll find very few threads about managing temperature, because you just have to push a button and you're done.

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kjcaufield (original poster)
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#5: Post by kjcaufield (original poster) »

Keno,

Thank you for your reply. As for your comment of looking around - I have! Mon Dieu, how have I read & watched videos & discussed machines with our local professionals till my head started spinning!

I have been reading the boards/reviews/talking with baristas & sellers for well over a year now (Maybe 2? :oops:) - hence is why I was wondering how/why people choose the machines they did vs. trying to have one suggested for me. I also thought it would be an interesting/fun discussion that I haven't specifically seen on the boards. This is also why I put my comments in small print - they are secondary to my main question.

As for picking a machine for us, there is an overwhelming number of choices out there, and yes hubby & are are both prone to over thinking :D. About the time I think I have read about what is available, I find 3 more machines I have never heard of before (the Brewtus I stumbled upon the other day). As for the newbie intros, I have read probably most of what is out there - and most of what is written is too basic/high level to narrow in on a specific machine in a specific category across vendors. Additionally, as one reads discussions there is conflicting information based on people's likes & dislikes (For example, today I was reading about the Oscar - a machine I am interested in as an option but hubbie hasn't committed to - and found many people expressing they are overpriced for what you get and the Breville DB is a better option. The Breville I had crossed off the list due to its poor reliability history. So... :shock:).
Re: the semi-portability desire - life circumstances has us currently spending our time partially moving between 2 houses, so if possible I would like to lug it along with us, esp. since the one house has limited coffee house options (hubby isn't on board with that either - yet). Yes, this would likely nix having a plumed machine for the time being (which also has its pros & cons. One being quality of tap water), and is one reason I was eye-balling the Oscar (its around 35lbs). There are many things we have yet to decided on due to various trade offs. Which lead to my comment about wishing I could find a place that nicely summed up pros & cons so I could decide which trade offs we wanted to trade off on. This was something else I was hoping a discussion of how people choose their machines may answer for both myself and others looking to find things in one spot.

And yes, we have long ago dismissed a single boiler and are looking for specifically for a prosumer machine. Lots of homework has gotten us that far. Either a DB or HX works fine for our needs- we have no preference. Going the cheaper route would likely put us in the HX category, but even there there is a lot of overlap. We would also *love* to be able to play around with different machines. That would be a dream! I have not been able to find a place where that is possible in either location we spend time at.

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keno
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#6: Post by keno »

sashaman wrote:Ken, can you explain what you mean by

"ability to manage temperature on the fly (HX advantage)"

I have an HX at home and I use a Breville DB at work, and changing the temp is MUCH easier on the BDB (just a button click) than on my Expobar. Yes, I can change my flush routine on the Expobar, but that tends to affect shot temp stability, not just my target temp.
Check out this thread in which a DB is compared to an automatic transmission and an HX to a manual transmission.

HX vs. double boiler temperature stability

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kjcaufield (original poster)
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#7: Post by kjcaufield (original poster) »

Ken,

Thanks for the advise :) (waits for pro-HX peeps to wail in disagreement LOL). So I assume that means, if given the choice, you would choose the Breville DB over your Expobar?


Kwantfm,

You back up my point. Of all the machines you discussed, I have only heard of the Lelit & the Slayer - and neither in much detail.

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sweaner
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#8: Post by sweaner »

If I were to buy a new setup now, I would go with the Breville DB along with a Baratza Vario grinder. though early BDBs did have significant problems, they seem to be doing better now, and the company is supporting them well.
Scott
LMWDP #248

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drgary
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#9: Post by drgary »

Hello Kristin,

And welcome to H-B! Here's my 2 cents.

For portability some people get a second machine, like a home lever. You can make multiple shots with these machines that are temperature controlled, and there are many posts about that. I recently visited one of the top Portland roasters and made a better shot on my Olympia Express Cremina with group thermometer than they did on their pro gear. You'll enjoy this thread:

Portability / Traveling with espresso equipment

As far as whether there's discussion about why people choose a machine, yes there is. Usually it starts with asking their usage habits and preferences, and you've probably read many such threads. To get past overthinking I suggest getting something that's been well-liked and starting to use it. If you're not fully satisfied you can sell that to a ready market and you'll know more about what you're looking for in an upgrade. There's a learning curve here that only starts when you obtain your kit.

Breaking Through to Fine Espresso at Home

I've talked to espresso machine dealers about why they carry what they do. Usually it's about good build quality, access to parts, machines that can be shipped without being easily damaged, and of course features and price point that are competitive with other offerings. If you visit the sites of the approved vendors listed in Resources you will see which brands they carry. These vendors often suggest feature improvements to manufacturers. Their sites can also list bargains in newly introduced machines and refurbs (see our Marketplace section too) that you might also learn about by calling them.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

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bean2friends
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#10: Post by bean2friends »

I have a Mini-Vivaldi and here's why I chose it:
- Chris's Coffee Service was a seller - they have an outstanding reputation.
- I didn't want to plumb it and it has an easily accessible tank with plenty of capacity. (Since I bought it, I have added Chris's under sink softener and filter so as it turns out I could have plumbed it, but I find this system to suit my needs. I just fill a pitcher every 3 or 4 days and have good quality water always on hand).
- The Mini has a drip tray that is both deep and wide so it also has plenty of capacity.
- My wife and I drink almost exclusively milk drinks and the Mini has great steaming capacity - it is a double boiler and I wanted a double boiler.
- It's easy to change temperatures - that was a deciding factor, although now, I almost never change temperatures.
- There's a web site of Vivaldi owners - S1cafe.com where folks who own them support one another. I learned there aren't a lot of problems with them and that there's an easy place to go for help.

I like my machine a lot and do not regret my decision at all after about 4 years. The main reason I've seen for people to not get one is they don't like the looks of it. If you want shiny, don't get one.

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