Hey all,
I'm new to the forum, and looking forward to getting to know everyone and being part of the community. I learned about this place after doing some research while upgrading my espresso machine. Any advice would be appreciated .

So, i'm upgrading from a nespresso maestria, and want to go all out into the semi auto world. I did a lot of research over the past 3 weeks, and settled on either the rocket cellini evo v2 or rocket r58 v2. I'm the type of person who would rather get what I want up front rather then spend a great deal of money in the upgrade process. I narrowed down my choice to these 2 options for many reasons, but here are my main reasons:

aesthetically gorgeous
excellent reputation
e61 group head
ability to plumb in the future
no need to worry about temperature (r58-w/a minor heating flush perhaps)
ability to adjust boiler temperatures via PID (r58)

So, after speaking to a well respected dealer on the forum, I was offered $2000 for the cellini and $2400 for the r58. These would also come with some rocket accessories.

Any kind advice on what people here would do? Generally worth investing an extra $400 for the dual boiler/pid features? Also, I would be purchasing a vario to accompany the machine.

Thanks all!

JP

I've been very happy with my Rocket Giotto Evo V1. That's is quite a jump you're taking from a capsule machine to a HX or DB so that may make your decision a little more difficult. One thing to consider is how often you like to change out the coffee you are using. If you will be single dosing and flipping between multiple coffee roasts then a Dual Boiler may take more time to temperature stabilize between each change. Other than that the R58 would give you the temperature control you are looking for.

The second reason to forgo the R58 would be financial. You could use the savings from going with the Celini and spend more on a grinder. I started with a Vario with my Giotto and recently moved to a Compak K10 Fresh. I thought the Vario was great when I had it dialed in, but I periodically ran into the issue of the burr setting being off following a coffee change and would burn through a 1/2lb of coffee getting it tuned again. There are quite a few options for grinders between the Vario and a titan conical. And the Vario definitely holds its own against most grinders when you have it dialed in so it's not a bad choice.

Hi jgirl,
Thanks for your input. Your previous posts on the forum were actually really helpful in leading me towards rocket .

So, to answer some of your questions, since i'm new to making real espresso at home, I don't see myself changing out different espressos for a bit or at least until each pound runs out. My strategy is to go to the cafe that roasts the beans and sample the espresso made by the barista. If I like it, I will buy a pound, and start trying to dial everything in. Not sure if this is the best strategy, but I think it would be fun for me .

The extra $400 would be real nice, but I honestly can't see myself going to the price of the compak. Although, I am aware that the grinder is the star of the show. I was considering a used mazzer mini E, but after doing some research, it did not have much advantage over the vario other than construction.

At this point, i'm leaning more towards the r58. One nice feature is that it would be easier for me to teach my girlfriend to use in comparison to needing to flush for a certain amount of time/oz in a HX. Also, for myself, I think it may be less frustrating in trying to develop a more consistent shot-however, some people certainly due find the procedure to be an "art" rather than a "frustration." Anyway, i'm rambling, still got some thinking to do, but hoping to have one or the other ordered by tomorrow .

JPizzle,

Welcome to the forums and to the wonderful world of prosumer level machines. This is a great community with lots of good advice and all manner of opinion. There is also a ton of discussions talking about the never endless debate of HX vs DB.

Having owned several level of HX and 2 DB machines, as well owning a vario, and currently a K10. The advice from Jgirl is sound. Get the best grinder you can afford and only then, work yourself into the best machine you can afford.

Based on my humble opinion, the learning curve moving to an HX might seem steep at first, but it is really like learning how to drive a stickshift vs an automatic. Once you figure it out, the HX becomes something you can control easily and in some cases faster.

On the DB side, convenience factor is something to consider, while learning how to move into this class of machine, good fresh beans, measuring them, getting the grind right, tamping evenly and consistently, being able to simply set the temp via PID will feel easier as it is one less variable you have to learn about, but remember you still will have to do a flush with the DB machine. The difference really comes down to the amount of flushing. The water used for an HX vs DB is significant. HX will simply require a good deal more flushing.

There is an interesting thread in the same forum here you might want to review if you have not already for some interesting and great perspective from several on the forum.

HX vs. double boiler temperature stability

Ultimately, either decision will be good. It really comes down to what is best for you as it is your money. So don't get too caught up in the endless debate of HX vs DB or cycle of analysis paralysis.

Best,

John

Hi John,
Thanks for the welcome and the info! I've done a lot of reading on the forum over the HX vs DB. At the end of the day, I think the extra $300 (I would have spent another $100 on the stainless guard rail lol) is worth it for me to get the DB. I also won't be able to have the drip tray drained out until I can move to a place to renovate (2-3 years). So with extra HX flushing, I think i'd be changing the tray more often, which may not be worth the $300 savings. Anyway, I hear what people are saying about the grinder and I totally agree that it's best to invest in a quality grinder. At the moment however, I'm pretty smitten by the r58, so it's tough to come up with another 1k for a compak or equivalent grinder. Like jgirl said, the vario has shown to hold its own when dialed in and i'm happy to work through it. I don't think i'd be able to taste the small nuances anyway while it adjusts. Regardless, another grinder I was looking at was a used Mazzer mini e type a that is on sale in the forums for $500. However, I'm able to get the vario new for $350 and i've read that in many cases it matches or surpasses the mazzer mini series. I'm thinking then it might be better to hold on to the vario and when ready jump up to a compak down the line. Unless, people think the mazzer is a better deal at $500 used vs vario for $350 new........Paralysis by analysis indeed

Great choice on the R58.

This is a decent example of the Mazzer vs Vario discussion worth reviewing:

Mazzer Mini or Baratza Vario?

Thanks!! Now to hit the payment button hah

I read that thread, which was also super helpful in leading me to pick the vario. One nice thing about the vario is the small foot print. at 4" wide, it'll easily be out of sight next to the r58.

P.S is it normal to feel nuts spending this kind of cash on espresso products lol. Coming from nespresso where my machine was like $500, it's scary pressing the purchase button

Do give your chosen supplier a call they might be able to give you a discount especially if you are picking up a grinder too.

JPizzzle wrote:The extra $400 would be real nice, but I honestly can't see myself going to the price of the compak. Although, I am aware that the grinder is the star of the show. I was considering a used mazzer mini E, but after doing some research, it did not have much advantage over the vario other than construction.

I think that you are over spending on the machine and under spending on the grinder. Machines come and go, and the tech inside marches ever forward...but you only have to buy a K10 once to have the potential to make excellent espresso on just about any machine (steam-toys and pressurized portafilters excluded).