CrayonShinchan wrote:Sorry, Dan! I was way off. Steaming capability on Duetto is great. I'd say almost on par with a GS/3, if not equal (yes, I have used a GS/3).

No worries. I have a keen eye and immediately saw that you must be off on the measurements somehow. And now I have provided Randy a proof that I am truly anal. LOL!


OK, so now we have these measurements:

Height from the drip tray to the bottom of the grouphead: VBM 5.5" vs. Duetto 4.75"
Size of drip tray: VBM 10.5" x 6.85" vs. Duetto 12" x 6.25"
Shower head goes into the basket about 8mm on both machines.
Naked portafilter is 1/2" or a bit less, depending on the PF, leaving a space of about 5" on the VBM, and 4.25" on the Duetto. (Grouphead to drip tray).

I'd say the differences in work space are not significant.

The funny thing is my wife's boss' name is "Moch," which of course is a nickname to a longer Japanese name, but seeing your cup made me chuckle.

I bet I could get him to buy your cup for much higher than you paid

Think about it...

Although I think a lot of this discussion is OCD overkill, I will comment on the $250 price difference. First, I noticed that the shipping weight of the Duetto is 72 lbs and the DD is 84 lbs. There's 12 extra pounds of something in the DD and you're only paying $250 for it, much cheaper per pound than the first 72 lbs of either machine.
Second, the whole discussion of "what am I missing" for $250 is silly. As we all know, the price of many things is only slightly related to cost of production. Much of this in intangible. Is a Lamborghini worth $50K more than a Porsche? Why? Who knows. The main reason most people charge a certain amount is because they can. People pay more for all sorts of intangible reasons like looks, certain features that are important to one person but not another, etc.
In the end, LaDan will decide if the group head height and 12 extra pounds is worth $250 to him. This is probably not a question that anyone else can answer. Michael

Has anyone done a matrix comparison between the two machines?

Question to the VBM owners: On the Alex, looking at Chris's video, you can see how the whole front moves when he puts in the portafilter. The front panel flexes with it.

The first time I watched that video, I did a double-take on that. It happens very quickly and I found myself playing that part back several times, making sure I saw what I saw. It really bothered me. My Silvano never budges at all, even when I give the PF an extra twist prior to a backflush. Having seen that video, it made me re-think just about everything regarding the Duetto.

innermusic wrote:The first time I watched that video, I did a double-take on that. It happens very quickly and I found myself playing that part back several times, making sure I saw what I saw. It really bothered me..

The VBMs do that to some extent as well if you crank on the PF which is not at all necessary (at least on the VBM's group). The PF locks with very light effort even when backflushing with a blind filter.

innermusic wrote:The first time I watched that video, I did a double-take on that. It happens very quickly and I found myself playing that part back several times, making sure I saw what I saw. It really bothered me. My Silvano never budges at all, even when I give the PF an extra twist prior to a backflush. Having seen that video, it made me re-think just about everything regarding the Duetto.

My Silvia does the same thing, so I actually hold the right wall of the machine to counteract the lean/shift when I'm locking the PF. If I don't apply equal pressure to the other side, I feel like the machine's gonna collapse one of these days.

That said, the Silvia's a Silvia.

I didn't think you had to worry about such flimsiness with the "high end" stuff like the Duetto and Domobars. I just don't think it's that hard to create a face plate that's rock solid, when you're working with machines that already weigh a million pounds.

We're amidst the espresso revolution, so I expect some heavy hitters to start debuting in the coffee market. Clearly, there's a shortage of quality competition. Hell, it's hard to believe the Duetto II and DoubleDomo Super are the only dual boiler PID machines that aren't commercial.

LaDan wrote:No worries. I have a keen eye and immediately saw that you must be off on the measurements somehow. And now I have provided Randy a proof that I am truly anal. LOL!


OK, so now we have these measurements:

Height from the drip tray to the bottom of the grouphead: VBM 5.5" vs. Duetto 4.75"
Size of drip tray: VBM 10.5" x 6.85" vs. Duetto 12" x 6.25"
Shower head goes into the basket about 8mm on both machines.
Naked portafilter is 1/2" or a bit less, depending on the PF, leaving a space of about 5" on the VBM, and 4.25" on the Duetto. (Grouphead to drip tray).

I'd say the differences in work space are not significant.

Now that we've covered the height of the grouphead, has head room already been compared?

I feel like it's the most underrated feature of an espresso machine. Maybe it's because I have a Silvia, whose bane is the gigantic nut on the shower screen.

Sometimes I feel like I should just get into espresso machine engineering 'cause some of the common sense that seems to elude these people, is disturbing. You wanna give 'em the benefit of the doubt, but it's really tough...