I'm on the hunt for a new espresso machine, and after several days of research, much of it done here, I'm suffering from research burnout and paralysis from too many choices
So I'm wondering if you all could tolerate one more what-machine-should-I-buy thread?

For the past 10 years or so I've used Saeco Superauto's. First a Vienna, then a V'Spresso. Neither machine produced really great espresso, but hey, you can't argue with one-button convenience.
We make latte's 99% of the time...flavored latte's, no less, so you true aficionado's can really turn your noses up at me! And while you might conclude that shot quality is lost on me, I'm not sure I agree. While I can certainly imagine the quality of a shot is far more evident when drinking it straight, I think a good deal (or a good enough amount for me) of that quality carries over into a vanilla latte, or a mocha - coffee and chocolate flavors do interesting things together, and I think better quality ingredients produce a better quality drink, even when the espresso is drowning in milk.

I don't want to buy another superauto for a couple of reasons
- I would like better tasting espresso, and I'm willing to put some work into learning how to get it.
- The machines aren't durable enough. I really don't like spending $500-$1k every 3-5 years for a big chunk of plastic that sits on the countertop. I'd much rather pay $3k today and be using the same machine 10 years from now, and have the potential to keep it going even longer with proper care and/or repairs.

Here's what I think I'm looking for :
- A machine that warms up quickly (morning is usually a rush for me.)
- Ability to transition very quickly from steaming to brewing (simultaneous would be cool, but it's not a must.)
- A relatively quick learning curve (a non-PID'd Silvia sounds like *a lot* more work than I would like to put in, and I'm willing to spend more money to cut down on the difficulty of pulling a decent shot.)
- Budget is flexible, but you'll have a hard time convincing me to go over ~$3k for a machine and grinder. Cheaper is always better, other things being close-to-equal.
- A machine that leaves a pretty dry puck behind. 10 years ago I tried a Semi-auto (Solis, I think) that left behind a soupy mess in the portafilter. It was more mess than I was willing to deal with, so I spent the extra money on the Vienna to avoid it.

Things that aren't a must, but would be nice:
- Something that doesn't require manually timing the shot - an Automatic, not a super-auto.
- Ability to use a water tank or be plumbed. I doubt I'll go through the trouble of running a water line to it, but having the option would be nice.
- A timer that can turn the machine on so it'll be closer to ready when I get out of bed. I realize I can add one on, and that's fine, but having it all-in-one would be nice.

My weekday beans are usually Lavazza Super Crema, and my weekend beans are Illy Medium Roast. I like the price on the Lavazza for day to day use, and I like the way Illy tastes, but I'm too cheap to use it unless I can sit and enjoy it for a bit.
I'm definitely open to new bean suggestions, even finding a local roaster, but I can't imagine ever wanting to roast my own.
I ususally pull 3 shots a day - a single for the wife, double for me. I'll occasionally have a second on the weekend, but I don't need a machine capable of pulling a bunch of shots one after the other.

After reading a lot of recommendation threads last week I headed on out to Bed Bath and Beyond with the intention of buying a Gaggia Classic - if I was happy with the Gaggia, good for me - it's a cheap machine, if not, they have a great return policy. Unfortunately they don't stock them in the store near me, so I figured if I have to order one anyway, I might as well see if I could find a little more guidance here.

So there you have it. Thanks for reading, and I look forward to your input.

-Chris

No matter what you're in for a convenience/mess shock if you switch to grinding, dosing, and brewing with a portafilter. It can be dealt with easily, but it will not be the same as emptying the box on the Saeco.

I have no experience with good pump machines, but I find a spring lever easy to use. It functions like a double boiler in the sense that you can steam milk and pull shots at the same time. This is a real luxary, so if I were you I would consider a double-boiler if I went for a new pump machine.

PC

Crrink,

Since you brought up the ~$3k I'll make this easy for you:

La Spaziale Vivaldi II
Mazzer Super Jolly

The VII is a double boiler machine and has programable brew temp, pre-infusion and water dosage. It is plumb only but I use my with a flo-jet and 5 gallon jug. You can add the La Spaziale VII timer but it is not cheap.

What you get is:
1) 20 - 30 minute warm up
2) easy and simultaneous brew and steam
3) great steaming for lattes and caps (and flavored steamers, hot chocolate, etc)
4) easy learning curve as the temperature, pre-infusion and water dosage are all easily programed
5) you can stay under $3k if you skip the timer (it can be added later)
6) pucks are pretty dry - definetly not a sloppy mess in my experience

I am very happy with my set up - I have definetly elevated my game with it but have lots of room to grow with it too.

I got my La Spaziale from Chris' Coffee Service who were great to deal with and they offer a 2 year warranty on the VII.

If you want more info (adding to your research burnout and paralysis) check out this web site:
http://s1cafe.com/

Good luck

Todd

Todd,
Thanks for the reply.
Wow, 20-30 minute warmup time? Is that typical for a serious type of machine? If so, I think I'd definitely want a timer, even if it's a $200 option.

Not sure the flo-jet and water bottle will pass the Wife Approval Factor, but we'll deal with that when the time comes

With the exception of small levers like the La Pavoni Europiccola (7 minutes) or Elektra Microcasa a Leva (12 minutes), espresso machines need at least 20 to 25 minutes to stabilize. The boiler may reach brew temperature in 5 minutes, but the rest of the group pathway must reach equilibrium, otherwise the brew temperature will plummet halfway through the extraction, resulting in a sour espresso.

Todd offers a good recommendation. As noted in How to choose an espresso machine and grinder at the "right" price, there are many good choices in the second and third tier of espresso equipment. It's the first tier that is littered with iffy performers (not all of course). Rather then pick from member suggestions, I recommend reading a few of the site reviews to get an idea of what's distinguishes one choice from another (threads like Lost in a sea of espresso buying advice offer a synopsis of representative models).

I love my Vivaldi II (owned since April 2007). However, there are now a number of other machines that I would at least consider. My suggestion is that you call Chris's Coffee and talk with them. They sell three machines that I would put at the top of your list (plus others that you might want to consider):

Vivaldi II
Alex Duetto II by Izzo
Quickmill Silvano

The first two are double boiler machines and the last is a single boiler with a thermoblock for steam. All allow you to steam and brew at the same time. The Duetto can be plumbed or tank operated and the Vivaldi is available as either the standard Vivaldi II that must be plumbed in (or run on a flojet) or the mini-Vivaldi II that is a tank machine.

I believe that the Duetto can be put onto a regular timer so you would avoid the $200 timer option on the Vivaldi.

Regarding grinders the suggested Super Jolly is a fine choice, but again, there are other options that you could consider.

Good luck,
Mark

Hi Crrink,
Your budget will allow nice equipment. I would look at the Baratza Vario grinder which has a much smaller footprint and will give you a very nice espresso grind. The super jolly is a great grinder (I have one) but it's pretty industrial looking if you have it in the kitchen. I also own a Vivaldi Mini (pourover) with the timer (which although attached to the machine, looks like a separate unit on a wire). It's a great machine. All decent machines take long enough to warm up that you will want a timer.

There are some newer entries in the last few years that would work well including the Alex Izzo Duetto and the Vibiemme Double Domo. At this level of machine, a major distinction would be the looks as they all make great espresso, steam well, and have dry pucks. One plus for the Vivaldi is that it's been around for a number of years and is extremely reliable (the reason Chris offers a 2 year warranty.) I've had mine at least 3 years (maybe 4?) and have never had any problems at all.

Is there a requirement for plumb-in install or water reservoir? Or a requirement for a machine that can do both?

The Vivaldi II (and non-plumbable Mini Vivaldi II) and Alex Duetto II are very popular options here. I have the Mini and if there is one thing that I kinda-sorta hoped to have... it is the option to plumb in. Maybe for Christmas I'll upgrade to the Duetto II or maybe the Vibiemme Super Double Domo. Both of those units have the ability to operate either in water reservoir or plumbed in configuration. And they both have the quieter rotary pumps, as opposed to the slightly less quiet vibratory pumps found in the Mini and almost all other non-plumbable machines.

I'm not terribly familiar with the heat exchange options, like the Rockets or Quick Mills. I personally prefer the double boilers so I'll let someone else chime in with HX options, which can save you money.

No requirement for being able to plumb a line - I'd love a machine that can be configured either way so I can start using it with the tank immediately, and then think about running a water line to it if I like it.
I can probably do the work myself, as long as I can get a drill bit to go through a granite countertop - can't be too hard to find.
I also need to determine whether I can upgrade the outlet behind the espresso machine to 20amp. There's a regular plug behind there now, but all the breakers in our box are 20amp or higher. More research...

I really appreciate all the suggestions so far, even though I am a *tiny* bit disappointed that nobody dismissed my love of milk drinks and recommended I buy an $80 steam driven machine from the nearest Target - you guys are letting your street cred slip!

Realistically speaking, how long can machines in this range last? I tend to take good care of the things I own, but I was never all that good about cleaning my superautos. The brew group was lucky if it got rinsed once a week, and I didn't take the filter screen off more than once a month.
If it'll make a big difference in longevity, I can follow a more frequent routine. If it's more of a difference in taste, I might be more lax about it like I was with the machines I've owned so far.

Last comment for now - I was on Chris' Coffee last night looking at videos for the machines recommended so far and I did watch the one for the Monza Deluxe superauto from Quickmill. Fits into my budget, so I'll be hunting down reviews for it today just in case I don't have to give up one touch simplicity for all the fun you guys have with your machines

Crrink wrote:Realistically speaking, how long can machines in this range last?

They're designed with repairs in mind. Assuming you maintain it well and handle occasional repairs, a well-constructed espresso machine will outlive you. If you search on "restoration", you'll find threads like this one describing the restoration of espresso machines anywhere from 10-40 years old (most of which were "rescued" from someone who failed to maintain it).