I know that *this* should not be the item causing buyer's frustration, but I need help!

I'm a newbie, and thanks to some excellent help I got here, I'm the proud new owner of a Gaggia Classic and Baratza Vario. I'm slowly getting better at all of the variables that go into my espresso making, but I have one really stupid frustration that just seems too basic to be real: the steam wand of the Gaggia is so LOW that maneuvering the milk pitcher under it, especially once I have made foamy goodness, is impossible without tilting it so much it spills. It seems like the only way this wand could work for anyone would be on the end of a counter, and I can't do that.

I have a 20 oz standard pitcher, so I'm looking for something shorter, but preferably not too much smaller (16 oz would be fine.) I can't find anything shorter than 4.25"

Or....can I bend the wand somehow without breaking it?

Anne

Have you considered upgrading your steamwand to a silvia wand? Other members have done this with success.

Most of the time, I use one of two pitchers: a ubiquitous straight-sided 12 ounce pitcher and a 13 ounce Cafelat pitcher. I like that it's wider at the top for good swirling/thunking action without spilling and the spout is narrow for latte art. I only use 20 ounce pitchers with commercial espresso machines.

I too would suggest a 12 oz pitcher. You will probably have better success with it.

I have one like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Rattleware-12-Oun...0016CBMYY/

That Cafelat pitcher sure does look nice though!

I don't make many milk drinks so it took me a good year of playing around with my Anita to get really good whirlpooling of milk and pourable microfoam. I used a standard 12 oz pitcher.

I recently purchased an Espro torroid 12 oz pitcher and its so easy to get good milk I can't believe I had to spend so much time to learn good technique with the old one. It's not cheap but it really makes producing good microfoam MUCH easier.

I have 2 questions, Anne. First, how big of milk drinks are you making? It doesn't make a lot of sense to get a 12 oz. pitcher if you're making big lattés that will only just fit in such a pitcher. Second, are you using a "pannarello" wand attachment (without the sheath that gives you dish soap foam)? I found that thing works for latté art just fine, though it's most certainly easier for a 12 oz. pitcher. You could also use the longer one that Whole Latté love sells as mentioned and discussed here. If you have trouble getting the pitcher UNDER the wand at the beginning/end, you may wanna put the machine out on the edge of the counter so that the wand has more clearance under it.

GC7 wrote:I recently purchased an Espro torroid 12 oz pitcher

Yep.

I've got both the 12 and the 20 oz.

The 12 oz is perfect for one double cappuccino.

Surprised me how well the design works, plus it's harder to do the smaller amount in something else - to get good microfoam and have little excess left over.

The 20 oz is perfect if you're doing a couple of doubles at the same time.

I can't speak from experience with the Toroid. I have a 16 oz. Rattleware pitcher with a vaguely resembles the toroid, and for me (a macchiatto and cappuccino guy) it gets most of its use as a vessel for soaking my baskets in cafiza--I favor my 12 oz. and 8 oz. pitchers. I didn't find the Rattleware to be anything worth writing home about, but YMMV. In any case I wanted to direct readers to the site's previous discussion of the Toroid. Anne, you may find this helpful as the initial poster also writes from the perspective of a Gaggia user.

As a general rule, I use a pitcher that is twice the volume of the milk I am steaming. so 4-6 ounces of milk gets a 12 oz pitcher. I do have a 20 oz if I am making multiple drinks. I can do 2-3 cappaccuino's with 12 oz of milk and my machine will steam roll right through 12 oz without batting an eye. On your machine, I would not do more than 6 oz at a time. The machine will get low on steam by the end if you are doing more than that, it will be difficult to get that swirl action going.

I have to agree with Geoffrey on this one. I could have saved myself a lot of money buying different pitchers if I had bought the Espro to start with. I have the small one as well and will be buying the next size soon. I bought a Motta initially but didn't use it. I have been using it more and it's a nice pitcher as well. However the Espro consistently produces nice froth.

GC7 wrote:I don't make many milk drinks so it took me a good year of playing around with my Anita to get really good whirlpooling of milk and pourable microfoam. I used a standard 12 oz pitcher.

I recently purchased an Espro torroid 12 oz pitcher and its so easy to get good milk I can't believe I had to spend so much time to learn good technique with the old one. It's not cheap but it really makes producing good microfoam MUCH easier.

Thank you all for your replies....

Troll- I though that the silvia wand was even *longer* than the standard Gaggia wand- so no, i had not considered changing, though I would if somehow that one fits better. My issue is not the quality of the unit, but it's length in relation to the counter. I have to tilt my 20 oz pitcher almost 45 degrees to get it in/out, so it can be messy depending on the volume of frothed milk when I'm done.

HB, Sweaner and GC7: can you tell me how tall those pitchers are? (The Cafelat, Rattleware and Espro, respectively) Thanks!

Shadowfax, the way my kitchen is organized, there is no end-of-the-counter for the machine. Otherwise that would certainly be the easiest solution. I am using the regular pannarello wand that came with the machine- not the slightly longer "latte art" panarrello you linked. (mine is shorter than that)

I usually make 1-2 drinks at a time, using 4-10 oz milk (1-2 double caps or a cap + a latte) Amazingly, the Gaggia has NOT been running out of steam on me, but I dont get good whirlpooling with more than about 6 oz. My husband just wants hot milk in his coffee drink...... so it works out ok.

When I had my Gaggia Classic, the only way I could use a pitcher bigger then the "standard 12oz", was to pull the machine to the edge of the counter(where I was standing), and turn it sideways so the steam arm was over the counters edge.

Using a 12oz pitcher, it was tight, but definitely doable. 20oz, no way without moving the machine.

I eventually put the machine on a "stand", which raised it up about 3-4inches. I didn't buy a stand, I made one, out of a Dictionary and an old textbook. Not exactly elegant, but worked.

As long as you temp surf the boiler, you should have no problem with losing steam power.

JmanEspresso wrote:When I had my Gaggia Classic, the only way I could use a pitcher bigger then the "standard 12oz", was to pull the machine to the edge of the counter(where I was standing), and turn it sideways so the steam arm was over the counters edge.

+1. This is more of a hassle, but this is what I do when I visit my Grandpa (his kitchen has similar constraints to Anne's). Maybe it's just that I'm male, but it never bothered me to maneuver the Gaggia (it is a Gaggia Espresso, so I don't know if yours is heavier) as I needed to. That's certainly one advantage those little machines have over the big machines on this site that weigh 60+ lbs.

But the stand idea is awesome if moving it isn't going to happen.

I bought a 12 oz torroid pitcher, and have used it 3 times. I'm filling it less than 1/2 way, starting with it chilled, and using 2% milk. I am getting a TON of bubbles, even though I keep the tip of the wand deep enough in the milk to hear (what I think is) the right "ripping" sound. It starts off with a great whirlpool, but then suddenly its all foam/bubbles, and I cannot even see if I still have a whirlpool or not. I tried to keep the tip all the way at the bottom AND about 1/3 from the top, and it makes no difference. Any advice? This is more bubbling than I had with a regular pitcher.

I'm under the impression that you are using the stock froth-aider wand. If that's the case, you might not be able to get much better results unfortunately. If not, then let me know.

The only other thing I would try would be to fill it up 1/2 way or more. Sometimes I manage to get so much turbulence in the pitcher that the foaming goes wild. Also, sometimes people can surf the steam hole on the side of the froth-aider with some success.

It's probably far less likely, but sometimes people run into problems with soap residue too. Certain soaps or chemical residues can denature milk proteins, messing up the consistency big time. It is bizarre that you would get more bubbles than before with this new pitcher.

you could try whole milk to remedy that situation (using a froth-aider wand in combination with semi-skimmed and low amount of milk in terms of the height) - as the volume of air & turbulence is like a waterfall in the milk and is essentially whipping the milk like cream. - Or you could try using slightly more milk, turning steam to 1/2 or 2/3 power and putting wand only a small distance below the top of the milk surface until the 100F point approximately. Also at those depths, it certainly helps to tilt the pitcher to get the surface of the milk to reach higher up the wand when you are steaming. also make sure that the wand is at and angle and not straight vertical into the milk

Anne,

I have a similar setup to yours. A Gaggia New Baby and a Vario. I steam 2% milk in a 32oz Rattleware pitcher with no problem. This pitcher is really too big, given the limited steam capacity of the Gaggia, but it works well, since I only steam 8-10 oz at a time. That said, I can consistently produce velvety microfoam, and pour decent hearts and rosetta's all day long.

The trick is to remove the panarello wand and steam with just the tip. This will give you much more room to get your pitcher in and out. The trouble with this pitcher is that I need to hold the pitcher at quite an angle to reduce the distance between the edge of the pitcher and the surface of the milk. However, this seems to make it much easier to whirlpool the milk.

I've never been able to get anything but Sea Foam from the pannarello wand.

My advice:
- Keep your pitcher, as long as it has a decent spout on it.
- Take off the panarello wand.
- Check out these videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxAvYoymUbM , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipQRepfzxfo
- Practice

Mini- so maybe I had TOO much turbulence?

Brokemusician- so you use the black pointy tip as shown in the second video you attached, right? I tried that this morning, and it almost worked. One problem is that taking the tip off the wand results in such a short wand that I may not be able to get it *in* the milk well. In the video, it looks like the barista is barely holding the tip under the surface of the milk. I thought that you wanted it about 1/3 the way down, and too close to the surface would result in lots of bubbles/foaming.

So much to learn!

Anne....the way that I use my Toroid is by always holding the pitcher level and inserting the wand straight down in the CENTER of the pitcher. Start it about 1/4th of an inch under the surface and keep it there until the temperature hits around 85 to 90F and then drop it about an inch below the surface. Keep it level and the wand straight. This is the way the instructions states to take advantage of the design of the pitcher and the dimple on the bottom.

Nik wrote:Anne....the way that I use my Toroid is by always holding the pitcher level and inserting the wand straight down in the CENTER of the pitcher. Start it about 1/4th of an inch under the surface and keep it there until the temperature hits around 85 to 90F and then drop it about an inch below the surface. Keep it level and the wand straight. This is the way the instructions states to take advantage of the design of the pitcher and the dimple on the bottom.

+1 - I'm probably less then 1/4" below the surface until the milk is just below body temperature and then go down about an inch but as Nik said - keep it straight down and level. This technique is very simple and different then I learned for a traditional pitcher where whirlpooling milk is best accomplished at an angle.