I have decided that I want to try to a grinder with a doser to break up more of the clumps I have been getting with my current grinder that is a mazzer mini E type b. I am not so much concerned about waste because I will be leveling off the grinds back into the doser, but I would like a grinder that is an improvement in grind quality. Basically, is the Compak k10 wbc worth twice the money as the Super Jolly? I want to make sure my money is well spent. I have considered other grinders but these two grinders seem to be the only ones that work well when say 5 shots of beans are in the hopper.

Coincidentally, I was pondering the same question this weekend. I want a low waste grinder that won't need it's own address. I would love to hear some expert comparisons if they exist. I currently have a MACAP M4. I'd like to consider the CMH, but I get the impression it is LOUD. The Compak is, IIRC, quiet, neat and low waste. But the SJ is such a bargain comparatively speaking. These were the 2 grinders on my short list after researching. I also considered the MACAP conical MXK, but this seems to be a fairly rare bird.
Any other thoughts are appreciated.

BTW, I have read the Titan and almost all other threads. I'm leaning towards the SJ a little.


Jeff

I can only speak for the K10WBC since I've never own a SJ. I made a huge leap from the ascaso mini which I still own. Some personal observations of the K10WBC are:

High quality of grounds which help prevent flavor defects. Very low RPMs which gives better flavor. Also much better static results specially in winter or low room temps and low humidity. With the K10WBC I don't remember having any static problems.

Can handle any job with a very powerful motor. The ascaso imini sometimes got stuck with light blends (harder to chew beans).

Easy to clean inside without taking it apart. It takes ~3 mins with a cute tip and a vacuum cleaner. Requires a fast minor mod to remove a piece of plastic in the chute.

Can do one shot jobs preventing beans getting stale in hopper. This requires a pusher object (toothpick container to put some weight) and a homemade 'spoon' (small spatula to get out the grounds in the chute and not waste grounds). I've never used the bean hopper. This is important for me because I don't know before hand how many shots I'll do. I keep my beans under vacuum with a vacuvin coffee container. This setup also helps me control the dose weight.

Fast grind setting. The ascaso imini is a nightmare compared with the K10WBC. With the K10WBC you just turn the top till a desired number. Can go from espresso to drip in a split second.

Very quiet. I did measured the sound level one time and it was like 62 dB with no beans at 2.5 ft distance. Once you put beans then it'll make the unavoidable louder crushing noise.

Low height with no hopper. This is how my current setup and it is sitting bellow my countertops. I use a small toothpick container to push the beans down.

Hope that helped

Cheers

PS: a video of the K10WBC in action (with sound amplified by camera):



Other video

That is wayyy too much work to make a double shot. I want to see the super jolly and the wbc k10 side by side in grinding 20 grams, twacking the doser to fill the basket, tamping and pulling a shot. I have a hard time at 6:30 in the morning worrying that much about breaking up clumps lol..

And what is preventing you from not doing it at 6:30? It is only an option

No, I meant what I said as more of a joke, so sorry if you took any offense... I am sure that the shot made from your process is more consistent than anything I can do from the doser. Does the WBC still produce clumps? I did notice that you didnt use the doser at all to break up clumps.

I only do that because I weight the dose. That's all. If you load the portafilter straight from the doser you get a good shot but you cannot weight the dose. If you weight the dose then you have to reproduce the same quality. So if you don't weight you are OK

Cheers

you can tare the scale with the PF on the scale.

then you use that grinder to grind beans and the doser to dose them in the PF. you can then put the loaded PF on the scale and the scale will weigh the coffee. if you want more grind more. less, scrape some off.

tamp.

lock n load.

brew.

sip.

repeat.

jon

Hi Jon,

Some practical thoughts to consider.

My portafilter is heavy and don't know if there is a scale that can handle that type of difference with accurate measurements.

The doser is not a precise way to add anything. And as soon as you try to 'scrape' anything from the portafilter, you destroy the puck.

Cheers

I have no SJ experience. I've had the K-10 WBC for about three months. By thawacking the doser as I grind, I get very little clumping and simply level, tamp and brew. I use a naked PF and usually get a really nice, even-starting cone.

I've done the weighing thing and have found that by thawacking, then leveling, I can get my dose within about .5 grams every time (usually only .2 or .3). This was measured by dosing into a removed basket (ridgeless, of course) and weighing just the basket and the coffee.

I also agree that I would not be able to go through that sifting/funnel/measuring scoop process at 6:30 in the morning.

Hope this helps,

I wonder how many shots a day get pulled around the world with pucks "destroyed" by leveling and scraping off the remainder.

A million?

Cheers.

Sorry I misunderstood you earlier. I thought you meant that the portafilters aren't top off. If the portafilters are top off then there is no need to weight the dose. I assumed that there was a distance between the top of the basket and the top of the grounds.

Cheers

RegulatorJohnson wrote:I wonder how many shots a day get pulled around the world with pucks "destroyed" by leveling and scraping off the remainder.

A million?

Cheers.

Bob_McBob wrote:There are many people here weighing their dosing on a 0.1g scale. I can approximately hit the weight I want, but it's pretty much impossible to get it on the mark without going over a little, which necessitates removing a small amount of coffee from the mound. Considering it's going to be distributed afterwards either way, what are the effects of removing a little bit first?

I would not expect any effect.That is what I also do but in a different way. I weight the right amount then I distribute, only that the distribution part is different because it kind of simulates the doser from the grinder. It is only a personal preference.

Cheers

UFGators...

I'd question tipping the grinds back into the doser. You'll be cycling grinds through that risk getting increasingly stale.

The SJ is very good value for money. It's built like a tank. Parts are easy to come by. It has a smooth, rounded flavour profile.

I have no experience of Compak.

What I do have is an Elektra Nino. If you are thinking of spending big money on a dosered Compak and don't want to waste coffee, I'd give that a look. Waste is phenomenally low. I get more waste with the SJ in a day (without being a mad thwacker or overfilling the basket) than I get with the Nino in months. The SJ is now only for decaf. The Nino also has a very nicely delineated sweet flavour profile that works very well with single origins. More than one Mazzer Robur owner has stated they find the taste profiles indistinguishable. The Nino also doses straight into the PF with very good accuracy once run in and with minimal clumping, static, need for redistribution etc.

It's not small and it's not cheap, but..... it is pretty good looking

Do a search on HB for more info.

Am I saying this is the only option for you? Not at all. I'd certainly recommend you either to change the way you dose or resign yourself to more waste, especially if you start to notice any of the typical effects of staling grounds (woodiness, bitterness, little crema) if you do get a dosered model and recycle grinds as you suggest.

But otherwise, I'd say why limit yourself to the SJ and Compak? And think about your routines and temperament. Arpi is quite happy sieving. Others wouldn't be. You clearly don't like waste.... What are your other preferences? Including for type of bean, roast etc. If you like rich, deep, smooth chocolatey espressi, you may be more than happy with the SJ....

Cheers

Mike

Mike,

thanks for taking the time respond to my post. The main reason I am looking to switch from my current setup (mazzer mini e) is that I am having clumping issues with various coffees (toscano, redline, black cat) that I believe is leading to some uneven extractions. I have no idea if the clumping has something to do with the climate here in central florida, but it is nevertheless there. I was hoping that a doser would aid in breaking the clumps up and the added motor power of the super jolly would do the same. The reason I was considering the compak and other high end conicals is because I figured if I was going to buy another grinder, why not do more of an upgrade? By the way, how expensive is the nino and where do they sell these in the US? Thanks

1st-Line Equipment sells the Elektra Nino here in the US for $2995 (free shipping, no sales tax). There are also several vendors in Europe which will sell it and ship it here, including here and here. Remember that, if buying in Europe, you do not have to pay VAT, but you will have to pay shipping and Customs fees.

Also, remember that this grinder is not available in 110v . . .

UFGators,

I think that the video I posted drove off the subject of the conversation. The K10 is very capable of doing what you are looking for though it is twice the money of the SJ.

What I think you could do is compare the SJ to the mini in terms of clumps, static, etc. and see if the upgrade is worth. But keep in mind that the most important quality is the flavor.

I have a different philosophy towards espresso than other people and I like spending time with espresso. I like spending time doing things I like and I am not into shortest time possible, but I understand your position. I should mention that there is a transition of flavor due to dose weight that you may find interesting in later days.

Good luck with your purchase

zin1953 wrote:1st-Line Equipment sells the Elektra Nino here in the US for $2995 (free shipping, no sales tax).

CORRECTION: The Nino is sold from 1st-line for $2033. Note that is a slightly older model than the current production model, but as near as I can tell the only difference is that its firmware is the old version, which is missing the feature of being able to activate grinding with the top buttons rather than the microswitch under the doser.

Jim was fortunate to get his price lowered to something in line with European dealers.

Interesting, 1st-Line.com has it for $2995; 1st-Line.net (same company; different site) has it for $2033, or $1999 if you buy 2 or more . . .