Mazzer Super Jolly to Baratza Vario... disappointment ahead?

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
Lord Fluff
Posts: 87
Joined: 13 years ago

#1: Post by Lord Fluff »

Hi guys

I'm about to change espresso machine and grinder in one fell swoop - in search of both quality and convenience.

Step one - out with the lovely but often frustrating La Pavoni lever machine. It got me hooked, but the lure of a good semi-auto is too much to resist now, and I have my heart set on a rotary pumped Brewtus IV

Step two - out with the trusty and much loved, but very messy Super Jolly doser - a superior beast which I'm sure will outlive me, but I just find it too much of a faff, and would love doserless grinding.

So what to replace it with? Well, logically, a Super Jolly electronic, at around £600 - but I'm wondering if I'm overlooking the Vario - and perhaps I shouldn't as it can be had for around half that price. I know it's 'very good for the money', and unless the SJ-e is actually designed for doserless operation (rather than an added on kludge), but is it a worthy partner for the Brewtus? A ratio of 4:1 on machine to grinder seems high, and I'm concerned I'd miss the Mazzer. I've not seen a Vario in person, but the pics always make it look very flimsy and plasticky - yet I know it is well thought of.

I'm entirely open to suggestion though (unless you're going to suggest another doser grinder) so feel free to mention on-demand grinders that are roughly in this price range - the refurb Ninos that are going for £1300 are probably pushing it just a tad....

Thanks all

LF

User avatar
tekomino
Posts: 1105
Joined: 14 years ago

#2: Post by tekomino »

Grinder wise, if you can get good deal on Nino its hard to beat. Also, did you consider doser-less Mazzer Major? On the home sized grinder front you also have very good Pro-M...

morethancoffee
Posts: 16
Joined: 15 years ago

#3: Post by morethancoffee »

Hi,

which Vario do you mean? The K30 Vario or the Vario Home (the plastic bomber)?

There is a mod to transform your SJ into a doserless model for around 100 Euro. I like that more than the SJ electronic.

The SJ has excellent grind quality and it will be tough to beat or be on par with it (but doserless) without investing significant more money.

Had you alraedy a look at the K30 Vario or the Macap M7D?

User avatar
Spitz.me
Posts: 1960
Joined: 14 years ago

#4: Post by Spitz.me »

Vario's are plasticky and finicky. They need to be calibrated more often than you'll care for - IN MY EXPERIENCE. It'll suddenly drop and produce gushers and the only way to actually remedy the situation is to re-calibrate it with a tool. Vario's are on the market big time. People looking to upgrade, but also looking to do a more lateral move and get an SJ just to get the tank-like reliability product.

I think a Major would be a much better choice, large flat burrs and not a grind whore.

I regret purchasing my Vario in 2010 and only lately do I feel at peace with my k10. I have always felt like I was just putting up with the Vario. If you appreciate built-to-last you won't get that feeling with the Vario.

However, everyone touts the Vario because when sh*t hits the fan the Baratza's are there to clean it up well and good. But, great service is great when you need it. I'd rather not NEED it. I have experienced more issues with the Vario than anything else electronic I've ever owned.
LMWDP #670

User avatar
uscfroadie
Supporter ♡
Posts: 1156
Joined: 16 years ago

#5: Post by uscfroadie »

I guess I'm in the opposite camp of Tony. I hated my SJ and got rid of it for the Vario. 2.5 years now and it still works like a champ. Earlier models had their issues, namely the grind adjustment walking during grinding, belts jumping teeth, and calibrations going out of whack. I've experienced none of that.

However, if you can afford it, get a ProM or K30 Vario.
Merle

User avatar
Peppersass
Posts: 3690
Joined: 15 years ago

#6: Post by Peppersass »

Spitz.me wrote:Vario's are plasticky and finnicky. They need to be calibrated more often than you'll care for - IN MY EXPERIENCE. It'll suddenly drop and produce gushers and the only way to actually remedy the situation is to re-calibrate it with a tool.
I really must take exception to this post. Despite saying "IN MY EXPERIENCE", most of your post generalizes your isolated bad experience with your Vario. This is unfair to Baratza, which makes a fine and reliable product that dramatically lowers the entry price for top-quality espresso grinders. (I have no affiliation with the company, etc., etc.)

I didn't have an experience like yours with my Vario. I found it to be a huge step up from my Mazze Mini. Yes, the Mazzer is built like a tank and the Vario is obviously not built to be used in a high-volume cafe setting. But I gladly made the tradeoff because there was no comparison in terms of grind quality and consistency -- the Vario was vastly superior to the Mini. Despite the use of lighter, less expensive materials in the Vario, I never had any mechanical problems with mine in daily use over a period of approximately two years.

I never, repeat never, had any problems with sudden drops or gushers, and the only time I had to calibrate was when I first got the grinder. The factory calibration was OK, but I wanted to be able to go a little finer at the espresso end of the scale.

Now, to be fair, I did not switch between espresso and coarser grinds. When the Vario was my espresso grinder, I used it strictly for espresso. Chris of Chris Coffee recommends that for all espresso grinders (i.e., don't try to use them for espresso and coarse grinding.)

And I'll be the first to admit the Vario isn't perfect: I found that it lacked consistency when single-dosing, and really has to be run with the hopper at least 1/4-1/2 full. But most grinders have that problem.

And yes, I upgraded to a K10. I wanted a true Titan-level big conical grinder, and I wanted to be able to single dose with consistent results. But I kept the Vario and moved it to vac/drip duty. Until about a week ago, my wife used the Vario for brewing on a daily basis for months and there was never a hint of slippage in the grind setting. Last week I upgraded to a Vario-W with the new Ditting metal burrs, and feel the grinder is truly spectacular for vac pot and drip. Believe me, I wouldn't have bought another Baratza product if I didn't feel they make high-quality gear that will last.
Spitz.me wrote:Vario's are on the market big time. People looking to upgrade, but also looking to do a more lateral move and get an SJ just to get the tank-like reliability product.
Really? What evidence do you have that Varios are on the market "big time"? I did a quick check on coffeegeek.com and there are currently none for sale. It looks to me like only a few have been offered for resale over the past couple of years, no more than other used grinders. I also checked ebay -- no used Baratza Vario grinders there. What evidence do you have that people are abandoning their Varios for SJs?
Spitz.me wrote:However, everyone touts the Vario because when sh*t hits the fan the Baratza's are there to clean it up well and good. But, great service is great when you need it. I'd rather not NEED it. I have experienced more issues with the Vario than anything else electronic I've ever owned.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the product. It happens with every product -- someone gets a lemon or just has bad luck with it. But before you go making damaging generalizations about a product, you really need more evidence than your own experience.

KennethP
Posts: 18
Joined: 12 years ago

#7: Post by KennethP »

I just returned a Mazzer Mini-E. I found it was built reliably, but ground worse than a Preciso. I think the grinder had distributions issues. All of the on demand Mazzers seems to use the same dispenser. I'd be leery of any of them.

The Baratza's are wonderful grinders for the money. At their price points, they are far superior to the competition. Those price point also constrained materials and fabrication methods. They are better built than most consumer appliances. They also price parts reasonably and are smaller than any titan class grinder.

Personally, I'm moving K10. I did consider buying a Vario and seeing how my luck ran. I ruled out the ProM and K30 because I single dose. If you don't single dose, look at both of them.

Lord Fluff (original poster)
Posts: 87
Joined: 13 years ago

#8: Post by Lord Fluff (original poster) »

Thanks all for the replies so far.

The K30 Vario looks good, but there's two issues - UK availability of Mahlkonig grinders seems very limited, but a bigger (ho ho) issue is the width of the grinder - I don't think I have the counter space.

ProM looks interesting, but again, not found a UK stockist as yet.

Nino again may be too big, and of course the price is a bit extreme.

My mind is still open regards the Baratza Vario - opinions seem so extreme between 'it can beat the Robur' to the negative ones as seen earlier in the thread.

Any other options?

Roadie - what did you hate about the SJ out of interest?

malling
Posts: 2900
Joined: 13 years ago

#9: Post by malling »

You Can get the K30 in the UK, but it's certainly not easy to find, I'll give you that much credit.

For one I wouldn't spend that amount of cash on a flat burr grinder, even if it Had State of the art electronics.

Many Users complain about the Mazzer Major E's being grossly overpriced (And I agree), But the same thing Can be Said about the k30 or ProM.

for £1300 you Can get a k10 Fresh or Kony E. Both grinders have Big conical burrs. And I'll take any of these over a K30.

Unless You are professional cupper like Jim. Then I'll be a bit surprised if your able to distinguish a cup from a Major and one from a K30. And the k30 has a retail Price at £14-1500, The Major E £1000. And in my honest opinion paying 40-50% more for a k30 is unnecessary. So unless you Can get a used one cheap, I would suggest you buy another grinder.

Some mentioned Nino and it's also a good choice, if you Can find It on Ebay etc.

Ps: I use my Major E for Drip, but I have never had any kind of problems with clumping grinds, not even when I used it for Espresso, and +99% always end in my PF, so very little mess.

User avatar
Spitz.me
Posts: 1960
Joined: 14 years ago

#10: Post by Spitz.me »

Exactly, Mikkel. Why spend 1400 when you can spend as low as $500USD on a used Mazzer Major? Although the price I'm quoting is most likely the doser versions. Why is the assumption that the Major is inferior to the K30? Price? Availability?

Keep the 'Can it beat the Robur' results in perspective. The Robur can consistently produce great grind to produce exceptional espresso whereas the B-Vario's grinds will need coercion more often to produce great in the cup results. Although, not dissimilar to what you have experienced with you SJ, from all accounts. Although some people have testified to feeling that the SJ was superior to the Vario in terms of in-the-cup results. I believe the test against the Robur was done to show, at each grinder's best, how it stacks up to the Robur. The B-Vario suffers, like the SJ, from the inability to be consistent (all small planars) and they're not as 'easy' to dial in as the conicals. Don't get me wrong, the B-Vario will suffice if you don't want to spend a lot and don't really care about long term reliability - its long-term reliability remains to be seen.
LMWDP #670

Post Reply