Howdy!

I'm a cappuccino drinker: 1/day on weekdays and 2-4/day (sometimes all at once) on weekends. I'm looking to buy a new espresso maker and grinder. My budget is really maxed at about $1200.

Grinder:

I have decided on the Vario grinder based upon all the good positive comments and the fact that I occasionally make french press for guests so I'd like to be able to quickly and easily switch between fine and course grinds.

Espresso Machine:

I was pretty enthusiastic about a Silvia or Isomac Venus until I read of the inconvenience of single boilers for multiple steamed drinks. My budget seems to preclude HX machines, and since I have cappuccino drinking guests, I am considering what I might do. I am not too enthused about buying a used machine. It looks as if the Ascaso Duo might be a reasonable choice given my budget constraints and usage requirements, but would welcome any thoughts. Sux to be on a budget, but such is life. Thanks in advance.

Dan

your budget is daaarn close to a b.vario/bezzera bz02 combo. I'd call 1st line and see if they can meet you on the price.

Bezzera BZ02 semi-auto on sale at $949.
Baratza Vario at $449.

Yes, it is $198 over your $1200 budget. Sorry. But it's a significantly better setup.

By golly get the Bezzera. Wait a bit longer and save a bit more if you can. Ascasos IMO are substantially overpriced for what you get. Yes it is a two boiler machine, but the steam comes from a thermoblock boiler. These boilers are well known to be substandard - lacking power and energy.

Do look at these threads on TMC on the Duo, a European Coffee Forum

http://www.toomuchcoffee.com/index.php?...c&start=15

http://www.toomuchcoffee.com/index.php?...pic&t=8282

Just to throw another viewpoint out there, if you're going to up the budget by $200 or so, you could also do:

http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_m...7_semi.htm for the machine (which I think is much better looking)

http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_m...t/PL53.htm for the grinder, which will probably be in the same league as the Vario for grinding, but will be a little less user friendly in terms of grind retention, etc.

That's the combo I would go for at the price, but just because I can't picture having the BZ02 in my kitchen, but think the BZ07 is fairly beautiful. With some experience on either setup you could certainly get some very good shots though.

I own both the Le'Lit and the Vario. The Vario is a substantially better (and more flexible) grinder. Faster, better grind, easier to adjust.

hperry wrote:I own both the Le'Lit and the Vario. The Vario is a substantially better (and more flexible) grinder. Faster, better grind, easier to adjust.

I had actually asked on here about upgrading to a Vario, and the general opinion was that the grind was similar, while the Vario was a better grinder in most other ways, which I actually found surprising (about the grind). But I guess it's best to get the opinion of someone who owns both.

When you say that the grind is better, what do you mean by that, just because I'm not very experienced in comparing the actual grinds. Generally I'd say that I like grinders that make fluffier piles, with less clumps, but that's probably because the fluffy piles are easier to work with, not necessarily that they're "better".

Thanks very much for your helpful suggestions. I appreciate your expertise.

Best,

Dan

TrlstanC wrote:When you say that the grind is better, what do you mean by that, just because I'm not very experienced in comparing the actual grinds. Generally I'd say that I like grinders that make fluffier piles, with less clumps, but that's probably because the fluffy piles are easier to work with, not necessarily that they're "better".

Neither grinder "clumps" very much. Adjustment on the LeLit is tiresome as it takes many turns to make small adjustments (the plus in that is being able to make very fine adjustments). The grind on the Vario is "fluffier" for whatever that is worth. I have been able to get better taste in the cup with the Vario than with the LeLit. Also the LeLit method of activating the grind by pushing the portafilter against a button is less positive than the off/on button on the Vario. I also find that there is more grind retention with the LeLit that with the Vario (not serious however). The Vario is considerably easier to grind a shot at a time (which is the way that I use it because I change coffees frequently) than the LeLit.

nadidlab wrote:Thanks very much for your helpful suggestions. I appreciate your expertise.

Let us know what you do, Dan . . . .

/ / / / /

TrlstanC wrote:I had actually asked on here about upgrading to a Vario, and the general opinion was that the grind was similar, while the Vario was a better grinder in most other ways, which I actually found surprising (about the grind). But I guess it's best to get the opinion of someone who owns both.

When you say that the grind is better, what do you mean by that, just because I'm not very experienced in comparing the actual grinds. Generally I'd say that I like grinders that make fluffier piles, with less clumps, but that's probably because the fluffy piles are easier to work with, not necessarily that they're "better".

Tristan, I'm not Hal, and Hal has spoken for himself, but . . .

Let me first say that I have never owned a Le'Lit PL53, but I have owned a very similar grinder (same/similar burr set), and I've used a friend's Le'Lit. Be that as it may, take my comments with whatever number of grains of salt you deem appropriate.

The Le'Lit is a very good grinder and a very good value. It can be a PITA to adjust, especially over a wide range, and can be a bit messy; also, it is good for espresso, but that's it. If it were a car, I'd think of a Chevy sub-compact; it will certainly get you there, but . . . .

In contrast, the Baratza Vario is more like a small sports sedan (I dunno, perhaps an Audi A4?). It's faster, easier to adjust, cleaner, and fluffier with very little grind retention. It also features timed dosing for more accurate, repeatable results. And it can also replace multiple grinders, in that you don't need a separate grinder(s) for drip, press and/or other, non-espresso preparations.

The Le'Lit, at $269, is a good buy. No doubt about it. It performs as well or better than grinders costing $100 more. And for that reason, it gets -- and deserves -- a lot of recommendations. The Baratza Vario, however, is priced at $449 and is equal or outperforms grinders that list for as much as $1,000 MSRP (actual street price is less). This is why you see people here recommending time-and-again a new Baratza Vario or a used Mazzer Major or Super Jolly. It's -- in a sense -- a "prosumer grinder," compared to an "SBDU grinder," in that it plays high above its weight class.

It's not that the Baratza will handle the demands of a busy café -- it can't -- but I can easily envision it being able to handle the load of a small bar/restaurant that has a 1-group espresso machine. The Le'Lit is designed strictly for home-use; it plays within its weight class, it just does so affordably*.

I hope that makes sense.

Cheers,
Jason

* That said, there are similar grinders to the Le'Lit PL53 that cost even less: here, and here, for example.