Hi just looking for some opinions , i have been using a Mahlkoenig Vario and although i have never tried another grinder i would say it is very good, What i would like is a separate Grinder for espresso and one for press as although it is very simple to switch the vario from espresso to press, it will never go back to the exact setting dialed in for espresso so has to be redialed every time hence now we just use the espresso setting for press to save the hasle .I was considering the K 30 for espresso {wife actualy likes that} she is not to happy about the price but i think i can smooth that over They use one in a local espresso bar and the espresso is superb, allways consistent and the owner and staff that work there say they NEVER have to adjust the settings just push in and grind sound slike it would suit us fine. BUT I have also been looking at the Nino grind on demand very sexy looking wife actualy likes it to look at but does not know the size and the price hight may put her off and price may rule it out in her books But would we be cutting our noses off to spite our face if we were to buy the K30 instead
Important things to us are Grind retension, ease of use, reliability, serviceability and of course in the cup taste
I did read somewhere that there have been some electronic display issues with the Nino
Any thought experience or advice would be much apreciated

Many thanks

Londonplug wrote:They use one in a local espresso bar and the espresso is superb, allways consistent and the owner and staff that work there say they NEVER have to adjust the settings just push in and grind sound slike it would suit us fine.

You need to adjust it as any other grinder out there.

I can't comment about Nino, sorry... but it cost about the double of the K30, no?

If you're happy with the results in the cup from the Vario, why not just get another for all other duty other than espresso? You'd sure see quite a cost savings vs. either the K30 Vario or Nino.

I have no experience with either the K30 Vario or Nino but both are supposedly superb grinders, though significantly different. The Nino uses 68 mm conical burrs with the K30 Vario has 65 mm flat burrs (see the Titan Grinder Project for exhaustive comparison/evaluation of various commercial grade grinders with both flat and conical burrs).

If you're interested in other grinders with features of the Nino (electronic, timed single dosing), take a look at the Mazzer Kony-E and Compak K10 Fresh, both of which are considerably cheaper than the Nino (at least they are here in the US). Also, the Compak K8 Fresh is a bit cheaper than the K30 Vario (again, here in the US) and offers huge 83 mm flat burrs. That being said, every K30 Vario owner that I've seen comment on these forums regarding the performance of their grinder seem to love it.

FWIW, I have the Mahlkonig ProM which also has 65 mm flat burrs and timed dosing and am very pleased with it's performance to date (only been about a month). The extra benefit of the ProM is its kitchen friendly footprint (and thus wife friendly ) and it's slightly cheaper than the K30 Vario.

rgs1218 wrote:If you're interested in other grinders with features of the Nino (electronic, timed single dosing), take a look at the Mazzer Kony-E and Compak K10 Fresh, both of which are considerably cheaper than the Nino (at least they are here in the US). Also, the Compak K8 Fresh is a bit cheaper than the K30 Vario (again, here in the US) and offers huge 83 mm flat burrs. That being said, every K30 Vario owner that I've seen comment on these forums regarding the performance of their grinder seem to love it.

You are right i dont really see a bad word against the K30 and it certainly does the business in the espresso bar, we have looked at the others and apart from the Nino all my wife has done is given an uninterested grunt and told me "Why dont you just stick to the one you have actually seen working in the bar and know will work well for you" She did really like the Nino but does not know its price or its real size so i think the K30 will be option for us Wife likes it so "dont look a gift horse in the mouth "

Vernnes kindly commented on the possible price difference between the two, as far as i can see here in Britain it is not so bad, something like 25% to 50% extra for the Nino so not so much considering the amount already forked out on the K30 i wouldnt want to shoot myself in the foot over the difference but would have to work extra hard on the Wife
This K 30 does seem to be very much cheaper in the US

Many thanks

rgs1218 wrote:If you're interested in other grinders with features of the Nino (electronic, timed single dosing), take a look at the Mazzer Kony-E and Compak K10 Fresh, both of which are considerably cheaper than the Nino (at least they are here in the US).

I'd say the Kony-E is too slow. If I were to spend that much on a grinder, it better be fast.

Also, if I were in the market for a new K30, I'd buy the ProM. Smaller, better looking, cheaper, same burrs.

Maybe I could take this somewhat in another direction: Does a grinder for drip or press need to be as serious as an espresso grinder? It would seem to me that the extreme fineness and evenness required for good espresso performance would mean less for other preparation methods, true?
Duke

duke-one wrote:...Does a grinder for drip or press need to be as serious as an espresso grinder?
Duke

It seems so. Take a look at this thread:

Why do bulk grinders produce a superior grind for non espresso preparation?

duke-one wrote:Maybe I could take this somewhat in another direction: Does a grinder for drip or press need to be as serious as an espresso grinder? It would seem to me that the extreme fineness and evenness required for good espresso performance would mean less for other preparation methods, true?
Duke

Not really. The other brewing methods don't require as much fine adjustment capability to compensate for changes in the coffee from aging or weather; don't require much, if any change, for change in blend, and if they do the changes don't have to be nearly as exact as for espresso. But you do want consistently sized and shaped grinds. They might not hurt pour over as much, but too many fines are a real problem for Fp and vac.

The best way to begin figuring out what level of grinder you need for other methods, is to ask how much nuance you can get out of the other methods compared to espresso. Since the answer is "not much," you can see that you don't need a grinder with a raison d'etre of revealing subtleties the brew method can't reach. Just as a Kony would be wasted on a Gaggia Baby, so it would be wasted on a French press.

We bought a Breville Smart ($200), for our vac and Fp pots, and are very happy with it. We also heard good things about the Baratza Virtuoso (for the same purposes) at the same price. On the other hand, we were warned off the Kitchen Aid Proline (which my wife actually bought because I liked its looks, but we exchanged for the Breville). If we were really serious about non-espresso brewing methods, we might have gone as far as a Baratza Vario -- "just in case." I'd consider anything better and/or more expensive than that to be mismatched to the brewing methods and a waste of money.

No matter how much you have, you don't want to wipe your bottom with hundred dollar bills.

BDL

duke-one wrote:Maybe I could take this somewhat in another direction: Does a grinder for drip or press need to be as serious as an espresso grinder? It would seem to me that the extreme fineness and evenness required for good espresso performance would mean less for other preparation methods, true?
Duke

Good question. In general, I'd say you're correct, but you still need a decent grinder for drip and press.

The flavor of espresso is very sensitive to grind changes, which alter both the extraction and flow rate. Therefore, a good espresso grinder has to consistently produce the same particle distribution at any give grind setting. If it doesn't then flavor of the espresso is likely to be different from shot to shot, even though the grind setting hasn't changed. Not good. The best espresso grinders are very consistent.

Dip and press use a much coarser grind and are less sensitive to small changes in the grind setting. At given grind setting, a slight variations from one grind to the next won't be detectable in the flow rate or flavor in the cup. The grinder still has to be consistent enough to stay within the tolerance of the brewing method, but that's not as precise as is required of a good espresso grinder.

That said, even for drip and press, some grinders are considered better than others for more than just the consistency of the grind. A good burr grinder is always going to outperform a whirly-blade grinder. In general, larger burrs outperform smaller burrs, even for brewing methods that use a coarse grind. Consistency may play a part, but there's probably something in the particle distribution as well. Unfortunately, the data on particle distribution isn't very good, so it's hard to draw conclusions about what makes one particle distribution (or grinder) better than another. You can read all about the problem here. Don't worry if it makes your head spin. Some of the discussions here on HB are like that .

In a more practical vein, I use a "Titan Grinder", a Compak K10 WBC, for espresso. It's one of the best and most consistent espresso grinders you can buy. I use a Baratza Vario for drip. The K10 can grind coarse enough for drip brewing, but I prefer to use it only for espresso (superstitious, I guess, and my dealer recommends using espresso grinders only for espresso.) The Bratza Vario is very good for espresso, though not as good as the K10. But it works very well for drip coffee. It's very consistent and the coffee made from its grounds tastes great (mostly because I try to buy great coffee.) Most important, however, is that it's much easier for my wife to use when she makes her morning pot of drip coffee. I feel it's an excellent compromise between quality, cost and ease of use.

So, the bottom line is that, for home baristas, it's not necessary to go to the Titan class of grinders for drip and press coffee. Cafes, on the other hand, would want to use one of the high-quality industrial grinders designed for those brewing methods.