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Macap M4 vs. Baratza Vario? Which way should I fall - Page 2

Postby dialydose on Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:48 am

JohnB. wrote:I've read this comment many times & it simply isn't true. While it may be easy to move the levers from an espresso setting to a press pot setting getting an ideal grind at each setting requires recalibrating the burrs. If the Vario is set up for espresso grinding the Press Pot grind is disappointing at best unless you take the time to recalibrate for a nice coarse P/P grind. Then of course you will have to return to your Espresso calibration to get good results at that end of the grind spectrum. I wouldn't consider this "easily switching" but it is capable of producing good results at each setting if you want to spend the time.


I can go between espresso and press without recalibrating. Takes about 6 seconds. I consider that pretty easy. And yes, I am referring to an ideal grind for each so I know it can be done. Perhaps you have over-calibrated in one direction?

Bob_McBob wrote:Your constant criticism of the Vario would carry a lot more weight if you'd ever actually used one. It's basically the equivalent of coming on here and telling us how much the Robur sucks because you tried a Mini as your primary grinder in a busy cafe and it didn't work very well.


I too am tired of the people who have never used a Vario and their uneducated opinions. I wouldn't even respond except that if people are considering the Vario as a grinder, they should hear from people who own one. And seeing as the vast majority of people who own one love it (myself included), it is important to debunk the trolls who feel the need to throw their uninformed opinions around.

For the record, I currently own a Vario, M4 and Super Jolly. I really like all of them. You can read my specific comments in the thread that Dan linked above (re: Vario and M4). I have only had the Super Jolly for about a month. I am looking to convert it to doserless, but it terms of grinder quality, I really like the grinder. The biggest drawback for me has been its size.
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Postby JohnB. on Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:36 pm

dialydose wrote:I can go between espresso and press without recalibrating. Takes about 6 seconds. I consider that pretty easy. And yes, I am referring to an ideal grind for each so I know it can be done. Perhaps you have over-calibrated in one direction?


As I said you can easily move the levers from Espresso to Press pot but I was not happy with the Press grind when I was getting a nice espresso grind. For the record I was grinding for espresso second line on the Macro & mid way on the Micro which seems pretty typical. I used 2 different Varios over a two month period so it wasn't specific to one particular grinder. There is bound to be a trade off depending on which end of the spectrum you are calibrated to. If you are happy with your Press grind thats fine, everyone seems to use something different for P/P these days. From my experience the Vario does it's best work in the Espresso to Drip range & the coarser grinds are so-so. Better then most grinders designed for Espresso use but my lowly KA Pro turned out a much nicer coarse grind then the Varios I've used. Wasn't good for much else but a nice Press Pot grinder.
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Postby dialydose on Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:12 pm

JohnB. wrote:As I said you can easily move the levers from Espresso to Press pot but I was not happy with the Press grind when I was getting a nice espresso grind. For the record I was grinding for espresso second line on the Macro & mid way on the Micro which seems pretty typical.


Could easily be our own preferences on a press grind, although I certainly view mine as pretty traditional and for more than decent. My setting for espresso is the top line on Macro using the lowest lines on micro, but that isn't much different than yours. However, you replied to Dan by saying it "simply wasn't true" that you could easily have both. I think it should be clear that it isn't the case for you but certainly is for others such as Dan and I. I don't make a lot of press pots so its not a huge issue for me in any event. I do use it for espresso, pour over and the occasional drip. For these preparations (and press for me) the Vario produces great results and easily changes between settings.
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Postby JohnB. on Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:57 pm

dialydose wrote: However, you replied to Dan by saying it "simply wasn't true" that you could easily have both. I think it should be clear that it isn't the case for you but certainly is for others such as Dan and I.


Reread Dan's comment below.

HB wrote: I haven't found it necesary to recalibrate the burr settings each time, but that may be because I follow Sweet Maria's Brewing Instructions for French Press, which advocates a finer grind. .
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Postby dialydose on Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:36 pm

JohnB wrote:Reread Dan's comment below.


John - Why should I reread that quote? That is not the quote from Dan that you said wasn't true, so I am a little confused. For some people (including myself and Dan), switching between grinds is very easy and does not require recalibration. You said that wasn't true. I thought it was important to clarify...what am I missing?
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Postby Tom Compton on Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:44 am

Thanks for all your input. I decided to go with the Vario, not because of the settings: Espresso, Drip, FP. I made the decision based grind quality. I had time to get it out of the box and dial it in yesterday.

The results: nice fluffy coffee with little or no clumping that settling easily into the Portafilter basket. Very little static mess to clean up.

I measured out 19 grams of coffee for my ridge-less double Marzocco basket and timed the grind (14 sec). Now I can use the memory button to dose for me-very cool feature.

First impressions are great.
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Postby JohnB. on Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:21 am

dialydose wrote:John - Why should I reread that quote? That is not the quote from Dan that you said wasn't true, so I am a little confused. For some people (including myself and Dan), switching between grinds is very easy and does not require recalibration. You said that wasn't true. I thought it was important to clarify...what am I missing?


No I said the quote about switching easily between espresso & a press pot grind was misleading/untrue as you won't get a traditional press pot grind without recalibrating. Do you really believe the Vario is turning out it's best p/p grind when it is calibrated to the fine end of the scale? Have you compared what you are getting at your P/P setting to what you'd get if you recalibrated to a coarser grind? Dan is basically using a drip grind for p/p if he's following SM's directions & I have no idea what you are happy using. I do know that the two Varios I used, which I would imagine are typical of most, did not turn out what I would consider a decent quality traditional P/P grind when calibrated for espresso.

This quote from another active Vario thread is certainly interesting:

jasonmolinari wrote:Drew, i posted in another thread that i've had to "recalibrate" the vario after going between espresso and drip a few times...
I spoke to baratza, and the reason seems to be that the calibration screw loosens a bit, when the grinder is at drip setting, from vibrations since the screw isn't under load...i'm not sure of the design so i can't comment...


Baratza would seem to be saying that if you switch back & forth you will need to recalibrate if you plan to use your previous espresso setting. From what I've been reading the little Vario that can supposedly do it all is much better used as a dedicated espresso grinder. I'm sure Baratza would love to sell every Vario owner a new Preciso. :)
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Postby HB on Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:10 pm

JohnB. wrote:Dan is basically using a drip grind for p/p if he's following SM's directions...

I think we've entered the realm of taste preference. I don't prefer finer grind/shorter steep time because it conforms to a particular grinder's capabilities, but because I think it produces a more flavorful cup with more body. Evidently you prefer different brew preparation and that's perfectly reasonable. That said, this discussion has piqued my curiosity; I will try to borrow an ExtractMojo to measure how my personal preference compares with recommended SCAA brew standards.
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Postby dialydose on Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:52 pm

JohnB. wrote:Do you really believe the Vario is turning out it's best p/p grind when it is calibrated to the fine end of the scale?


For me (and others), yes....with a few clicks to spare. For you (and others), obviously not. For someone else thinking about buying a Vario, it will depend on their personal preferences...which was my point.

I propose a deal. Perhaps I bought a magical Vario. To test this, I will send you my Vario and you send me the K10 (or the Speedster). After a year, if you are not convinced my Vario does a great job at espresso through press without calibration, you can send it back.
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Postby JohnB. on Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:16 pm

Hmmm, a year with a Vario & no K10. Mighty tempting but I think I'll have to pass. 2 months with 2 Varios was enough for me. :)
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