Never timed how long it takes for grinding/preparing the basket/pouring the milk/steaming/frothing/preparing the cups/pulling the shots and cleaning up afterwards but I suspect it is 7-10 minutes. I have had many cappuccinos from a Jura J7 (around $3000) and if you have nothing to compare it to, it's drinkable. Here again, if you are not into the process of learning how to make extraordinary coffee compared to mediocre then you will be happy with the super automatic. They have their place and they fit a certain niche and there is nothing wrong with that. The Jura S9 is a full featured machine but I think it is around $1800.

aspenedelen wrote:Well the machine at the hotel did it in 20sec flat. I timed it from when I pushed the button to when it was finished.

I think that the impossible part is not the timing but the "perfect." If you are not really a coffee snob like us, you could consider the Nespresso as mentioned. Maybe even a Tassimo. Certainly the investment will be much less.

Now that all you good well informed folks have turned me away from Superauto's and I already have a coffee bean grinder is my next step a semi automatic espresso machine? Remember what I want is convenience but I want something that will be efficient and give me awesome tasting coffee and cappuccinos for my very good looking wife who happens to be a school teacher and buys lots of Starbucks (I am hoping with this investment that I can curtail Starbucks from making me go broke from my wifes cappuccino addiction) and at $3.50 or so per cup it all adds up rather quickly.

Can someone now point me in the right direction?

Thank you,

Anthony, let's start at the beginning. Here's an example of the Franke Evolution Super-automatic commercial espresso machine. It's only $18K+ . . . .

aspenedelen wrote:I already have a coffee bean grinder . . .

What is it? What kind? Be specific.

aspenedelen wrote: . . . is my next step a semi automatic espresso machine?

Quick review:

• A manual machine has no pump. It is lever-operated, and may or may not (depending upon the specific model) have a spring atttached to the lever. In other words, in some machines (like the La Pavoni Europiccola or the Olympia Express Cremina), you provide the pressure to force the water through the ground coffee; in others (like the Ponte Vecchio Lusso for home use, or a commercial machine like the Rancilio Classe 6LE) the machine has a spring -- you pull the lever down, and the spring action pushes the lever back up, thus forcing the water through the coffee.
• A semi-automatic machine is pump driven, and the pump is controlled by a simple on/off switch controlled by the operator, like the Gaggia Classic, the Ala di Vittoria La Valentina Levetta, or the Izzo Alex Duetto II. These machines are examples, respectively, of a Single Boiler/Dual Use (SB/DU) machine, a Heat Exchanger (HX), and a Double Boiler (DB) machine, which utilizes separate boilers for brewing and steaming.
• A full-automatic machine is one in which the water flow through the coffee is started with the push of a button, but stops automatically after a pre-programmed volume of water was been dispensed. These are also known as "volumetric" or "volumetrically dosed" machines. They typically have at least three, and perhaps as many as seven, button on the machine -- in the case of three, it would be for "Single" shot of espresso, "Double" shot, and a simple "On/Off" switch so that the machine can be used exactly the same as a semi-automatic. In the case of the Elektra T1 (see picture below), for example, there are seven buttons on the front control panel. The pictures would indicate them as single ristretto, single normale, single lungo, double ristretto, double normale, double lungo, and a manual On/Off button, but the point is that you can program them for any volume you want. You can also see the buttons clearly if you look at the three machines shown here (just scroll down); left-to-right, they are a semi-automatic "Levetta" model, a "regular" semi-automatic that uses a rocker switch to start/stop the machine, and a full-auto with 6 different buttons to push for various pre-programmed shots, manual operation, and to operated the hot water wand. Indeed, most high-end commercial machines (like La Marzocco, Elektra, Faema, etc. come in both semi-auto and auto versions). These, too, can be HX or DB models, but I cannot recall ever seeing an SB/DU model automatic.
• A super-automatic, like the Gaggia Platnium Vouge, a Quick Mill Stainless Superautomatic, or the $24,000+ Franke Sinfonia, does everything at the push of a button. Sometimes, you don't even need to put a cup in place . . .

Now, there is a direct trade-off in choosing a super-auto: what you gain in convenience, you lose in quality . . . even at Starbucks! Their multi-thousand dollar machines cannot equal what their former semi-automatic La Marzocco Lineas were capable of (even though they had the distinct disadvantage of using Starbucks beans).

So with a semi- or full-auto, you will definitely be getting better espresso, better steamed milk, BUT it will take some time . . . My machine (pictured above) is on a timer so that it turns on at 5:00 am. That way, it's all warmed up and ready to go at 6:00 when I get up. Time from start to finish for two cappuccinos, including clean up? 15 minutes.

I would think you'd want either a semi- or a full-auto, but not a super-auto. Before i (or anyone else) can really make appropriate recommendations, we need to know:

• What is your budget?
• How many drinks you need to make at any one time? (Say on an average morning.)
• How many drinks you think you'd be making in, say, an average week? and,
• Would those drinks all be cappuccinos and lattès, or would they include some straight espresso as well?

This will give us an idea of your true usage pattern, and with your budget in mind, be able to make some appropriate suggestions . . .

Cheers,
Jason

Alright,

First off the 18K machine is a tad bit out of my budget by lets say $17,500. My budget for a Superauto would have been somewhere in the range of $800.00 but I know now that to get a good one it would cost double if not triple that amt.

Next my coffee bean grinder is a simple Cuisinart Grind Central coffee grinder that allows me to grind the beans from coarse to a fine grind.

Thirdly, my budget for the machine I want to get is somewhere in the $500 range. Like I said before I would have spent close to 1k on a super auto but I really want quality vs super duper get up and go machine.

Right now I drink coffee all day long in my Cuisinart $100 coffee maker which I truly enjoy. I'll have two to three cups in the morning and my wife has one cup before she heads out on her hour commute. Mid morning I'll have two or so cups of coffee and then two or three in the afternoon and evening.

Espresso wise I haven't drank it since studying abroad in Belgium when I was in college as my coffee machine does not make them. I am fairly certain I would be a fan of espresso because I like that quick kick of the espresso shot and the flavorful taste of it or at least that is what I remember.

I only drink cappuccinos when I go to starbucks which is once a week but if I had a machine that could make them for me I would drink them all day.

Another thing that I would like to be able to make for the wife, me and my associates is Iced Lattes and Iced Cappuccinos for the summer months here in S. Dak which can get fairly hot.

After reading all or your very helpful info I am leaning towards a semi auto or full automatic espresso machine that is able to make great coffee, some espresso, lattes and cappuccinos.

During the summer and fall months I am exceptionally busy with my businesses and all i want to do is make my coffee and go ASAP! I need something that will give me excellent results that I can taste but be able to make very quickly if I am in a hurry.

Ideas?
Thoughts?

Anthony, let's take this one step at a time . . .

aspenedelen wrote:(M)y coffee bean grinder is a simple Cuisinart Grind Central coffee grinder that allows me to grind the beans from coarse to a fine grind.

Are you talking about a this? Is that the one? If so, you can forget about espresso: this is a "blade" grinder, which doesn't really grind at all, as the blade chops through the coffee beans at high speed, giving you highly uneven particle size as well as transferring heat. If you want to have any realistic hope of making decent, let alone great, espresso at home, you will HAVE to upgrade your grinder.

aspenedelen wrote:(M)y budget for the machine I want to get is somewhere in the $500 range.

That's not out of the question for a consumer model semi-auto, Anthony, and here are three suggestions:

• Le'Lit PL041, $375.95;
• Gaggia Classic, $499.00; or
• Rancilio Silvia v3, $593.00

aspenedelen wrote:After reading all or your very helpful info I am leaning towards a semi auto or full automatic epresso machine that is able to make great coffee, some espresso, lattes and cappuccinos.

NONE of the machines mentioned above will make "great coffee." They do not make brewed coffee. You can however make an americano (espresso + hot water).

Each of these machines -- and "Miss Silvia" is the queen of home models -- but each of these three will certainly "do the trick" in terms of making you and your wife an espresso, a cappuccino and/or a lattè that will blow Starbucks away, but if and only IF you pair your eventual machine with a better grinder. With that blade chopper, you would just be throwing your money away, and I would not recommend any machine other than to stay with your current $100 Cuisinart automatic drip . . . even then, a better grinder will result in improved drip coffee, too!

Cheers,
Jason

The best advice I can give you is that espresso is hard. It takes a lot of practice and experimentation to get good results, and it's messy, very messy.

When I started out it took me months to figure out what I was doing, even with all the advice that's online. It was discouraging at points, but also rewarding (and tasty) to get the first really good shots from my home machine.

My suggestion would be to go to the "Resources" section on this site, and start reading articles at random, and time yourself to see how long it takes before you get bored. If they articles are keeping your interest, then do a search and see if there are any really good cafés in your area (someone here might be able to make a suggestion) and go try out a straight shot or two (even if it's a bit of a drive), make a note of what kind of beans they're using.

If you come back home, and hop back on the site to read more articles, that's a sign you might want to invest in a good grinder, and a good machine to go with it. One of those articles or saved threads probably has a good recommendation for where to start out too.

That is the grinder that I have currently. Hmmm... I guess I have to start from ground zero then. Before I get really involved with this thread is there anything else out there can make a really good cup of coffee (#1) then cappuccino (#2) then lattes and finally espresso or does a machine like this not exist?

I am a fairly serious with my coffee and have actually bought Counter Culture beans which are absolutely wonderful. I am a big coffee drinker and since I drink so much this is a big one for me. How does a espresso + water compare to normal coffee? I love coffee and drink it everyday and whatever I purchase has to be able to make a decent cup since I drink so much of it.

Anthony,

Have you tried to call the hotel in Cancun to find out the manufacturer and model number of their super-automatic machine?

Wouldn't it be great if it was available to the regular public for a somewhat reasonable price? I bring this up because it seems that you really enjoyed the cappuccinos made by their machine, and that is what it is ultimately all about: how it tastes to you. It might not be the perfect cappuccino for anyone else, but if it is the perfect one for you then you have the right machine, whether it is a manual, semi-auto, or super-auto...

I started off with a Gaggia Synchrony Logic super-auto, and I loved it for several years. I have since upgraded to a La Spaziale Vivaldi II with a Baratza Vario grinder, but during those two-and-a-half years my wife and I really enjoyed the fruits of the Gaggia. My current setup has raised our taste experience to a whole new level, and I mean a whole new level, but looking back I believe that the Gaggia was perfect for us at that point in our lives...

Sometimes it seems that we have forgotten that it is not about the process or what sits on the counter, but that is about what is in the cup and how it tastes to you...

Just my $0.02 worth

Quick question for you Cruiten,

Why do you need a separate grinder for the superauto you currently have? Doesn't the superauto do it for you or do you just want a finer grind? Just curious.