Looking for a very personal espresso machine, budget around $1000...

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
mbishop
Posts: 12
Joined: 10 years ago

#1: Post by mbishop »

Hello all,

I've been making high quality coffee for a long time now and have even spent a few years roasting my own. I'm realizing that I want to make the move to espresso and am looking for a machine. After talking with my wife recently, she said, "get what you want. I'm not expecting to use it." That changed everything for me and I realized that rather than getting a general purpose machine for the whole family, I could get something for just myself that only needed to please me.

--- The story (skip to the list if you like)

With that in mind, I've started shopping around. I started wanting a Breville, but then through doing more reading, I've been salivating over the Nuova Simonelli machines. Like I said though, I'm now realizing that I'm not going to be pulling shots for anyone other than myself and I certainly don't need to be pulling shot after shot after shot. In addition, I started making cardboard boxes with the dimensions of the machines I was eyeing so I could see where they would go on the counter.

The Nuova Simonelli machines are sadly, just too big. I could relegate it to a different room, but I would much prefer to be able to access it in the kitchen as I yawn in the morning. That said, given our small kitchen, nearly all our countertops space is well trafficked with a small exception of a corner that is beneath a cabinet. For that reason, the Rancilio Silvia started to look more attractive.

But I also realize that I rather enjoy figuring out exactly the finest grind and most grams of coffee that I can put in my moka pots so they end up with the highest pressure that bumps up against the squealing of the pressure-release valve and I've taken notes and adjusted my grind to get there.

I'm not sure exactly what machine I'm looking for so I thought I'd put out there sort of a list of items that I hope will add up to more of the philosophy of what I'm looking for in the hopes that all of you experienced people will have some good ideas. The philosophy is that this is the beginning of my coffee journey and that every day will be a new step and a new flavor. Here is the list. I appreciate every suggestion.

Espresso Machine Requirements
  • - Small Footprint (for countertop)
    - 18" from counter to cabinet.
    - No one else in my family will be using this
    - Mostly Two Double-Shots per day (one in the morning, one in the evening)
    - Don't need it for parties (I've got the Moka pots for that)
    - Don't mind having to learn to pull shots (I'm open to manual machines)
    - Not against experimenting and taking notes
    - Don't mind having to do espresso shot and milk steaming serially
    - Won't be brewing pods
    - Don't mind having to refill reservoir
    - However, would like lighter machine if I'm going to be turning it around regularly to get at the reservoir
    - Doesn't have to be beautiful
    - Looking for a personal machine, that gets better as I get better. I would want the ceiling on the quality of a shot to be very high, even if it takes a lot of effort to get there.
    - Correspondingly, even if I can't pull a god-shot regularly, I'd like to regularly get something that is generally better than what I could get at a cafe.
    - I regularly buy very good, fresh beans
    - I have a decent grinder (Baratza Virtuoso, not against also upgrading this)
    - Looking for something that will feel personal and will be by my side for years.
Preferences
  • - Lasts a very long time
    - Quieter is better
    - Wouldn't mind the option to convert to plumbed-in, in case that becomes convenient
    - Would prefer a 58mm Portafilter (seems more standard)
    - Love the idea of using a bottomless portafilter
    - Around $1k for the machine. Priority on functionality/convenience. Don't want to pay a lot extra *just* because it looks awesome.
Machines Considered:
  • - Rancilio v3 w/PID (nice and small, seems to still output quality shots)
    - Nuova Simonelli Oscar (pretty big)
    - Nuova Simonelli Musica (too big and I'm not hosting a party with this)
    - La Pavoni Stradivari Manual Espresso Machine - Wood & Chrome - ESW-8

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Burner0000
Posts: 469
Joined: 12 years ago

#2: Post by Burner0000 »

Others may hate me for saying this but I think the Silvia is a good bet. I am also a single drinker in the house and it's perfect. If you learn to temp surf or get a PID and your using a good grinder it can produce great shots! However It's not really worth the price tag anymore. I recommend hunting for a used Silvia V3 and put a good $400 or more into the grinder.
Roast it, Grind it, Brew it!.. Enjoy it!..

DanoM
Posts: 1375
Joined: 11 years ago

#3: Post by DanoM »

mbishop wrote:- Looking for a personal machine, that gets better as I get better. I would want the ceiling on the quality of a shot to be very high, even if it takes a lot of effort to get there.
That right there sounds like a lever machine. If you are patient you can make them do wonders for you.

I would recommend one of the millenium or post 2000 La Pavoni machines. They seem to be more temperature stable and that's a big part of La Pavoni management.

Do you have kids around? The La Pavoni is an unprotected, unshielded boiler and can burn little hands that don't know better. They'll learn, but you should consider that the exposed metal can exceed 200F. And for you too - it's going to nip at your fingers for a little while until you instinctively know where to hold it. Not a problem after a week of use really, but for young kids I wonder.

The La Pavoni levers also steam well, albeit a little slow! Creamy, smooth, glossy foam for your espresso drinks is quite easy.
Heats up in 10 minutes.

If you find a deal on a Cremina it is purported to be a better lever machine. Another good machine to consider.

Get yourself a good grinder. It's more important than the espresso machine when it comes to taste. My minimal recommendation would be for a Vario or on the manual side a Pharos. The Pharos is rather hard to get new or used, but it has a superior grind on the coffee yielding more flavorful shots.
LMWDP #445

Marcelnl
Posts: 3831
Joined: 10 years ago

#4: Post by Marcelnl »

I was looking for a machine with a very similar profile and considered a Bezzera Strega or a Londinium, a la Pavoni was on the long list but got bumped due to a bit finicky temp stability..but bought a Faema Faemina vintage lever and did not regret it and am quite sure it will stay with me for a long time.

My advice would be to consider some of the fancy vintage levers, or indeed a Pavoni or other machine whatever appeals more to you, while I second the advice to invest in a high grade grinder as the shots my old gaggia classic makes with expertly roasted and fresh ground beans are not to be ignored either.
LMWDP #483

DanoM
Posts: 1375
Joined: 11 years ago

#5: Post by DanoM »

Marcelnl wrote:I was looking for a machine with a very similar profile and considered a Bezzera Strega or a Londinium, a la Pavoni was on the long list but got bumped due to a bit finicky temp stability..but bought a Faema Faemina vintage lever and did not regret it and am quite sure it will stay with me for a long time.
I don't touch my La Pavoni much now that I have a Bezzera Strega on the counter. It's temp & shot stable. Really nice machine, but it is large. Bigger than the Oscar that the OP rejects for size.

Faema Faemina, little spring lever machines, have made alot of people happy. Good choice to add to the list. One good thing about a spring lever is they handle getting the espresso pressurized for extraction, leaving you one less thing to worry about.
LMWDP #445

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espressoonmymind
Posts: 23
Joined: 11 years ago

#6: Post by espressoonmymind »

Did some one say foot print? 10.5x13, 16H 1st thing on the list. I have a Quickmill Silvano from Chriscoffee.com very happy with it. If you call him he might give you a code for a $50 Discount.

samuellaw178
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#7: Post by samuellaw178 »

If you're talking about *ahem* personal and foot print, nothing is going to get more personal and space conscious than the Portaspresso Rossa HC/PG. :P You're luckier than me that I don't even have a personal coffee counter space!

Shot quality is as good as the operator, beans and grinder combined. And the shot output volume is sufficiently large without risking puck fracture (on some levers you need to do multiple pull)

Temperature control & stability - check, pressure profile - check, quietness - check, durability - check, maintenance -what's that? And by the way, pressure profile is the ability make either heavy bodied(creamy) shots or high clarity shots by varying the brew pressure (very brief and broad generalization of course). Brew pressure is one of the major parameter why different machine (levers especially) gives different taste profiles, other than the temperature and grind.

What's the tradeoff? Well, the operation is more involved. You need to spin that darn spindle while aiming espresso into the shot glass. And manual preheating of the device is required, like, pouring hot water into the device 2-3 times. So you need to imprint the muscle memory for the first few week or so (depending on operator skills but not too difficult). But hey it's small and makes god espresso.

Is steaming milk important? I am using a small standalone steamer, but electric bellman is probably going to be as good. I only on it during the weekend for my wife's flat white. Other than that, it stays inside the cupboard while the Rossa/Rosco follows me anywhere to uni/home.

Just an alternative for you to think about. :wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH1lkC4Y5tY

wkmok1
Posts: 272
Joined: 10 years ago

#8: Post by wkmok1 »

FYI. The lever of the LP Stradivari reaches 20" at full lift. Because it is at a diagonal, it may still fit under your cabinets. I have 18" clearance from counter top to the bottom of the cabinet door. The cabinets are 12" deep. To raise the lever fully, the LP has to be placed approx 2" from the back wall. With confined space, filling the boiler can be a bit awkward. The opening is 11" high. You may need a container with a longer spout, like a watering can.

Hope this helps,

Winston
Winston

Intrepid510
Posts: 968
Joined: 13 years ago

#9: Post by Intrepid510 »

I mil Pavoni would be an easy fit in my opinion. They are small, quiet and an ease to use in my opinion. Just need a decent grinder and you will be set.

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boar_d_laze
Posts: 2058
Joined: 17 years ago

#10: Post by boar_d_laze »

It appears, that like many people, you're greatly influenced by very old reviews and the copy on retailers' websites. Contemporary reality is a bit different.

You say you don't mind waiting to steam, as a way of saying you think an SBDU would be OK. But whether or not you mind, the drink minds -- that is, the coffee collapses while it waits for the steaming process to finish. And, there's no reason anymore.

The Crossland CC1 is a better shot puller than a Silvia (even with a PID) and a much better steamer. It checks all your boxes, except that it's noisy (as is every pump machine you can afford). Combined with the Baratza Vario it's one of the best deals in espresso at $1000 for both.

The NS Oscar is obsolete, and requires several mods (couple of hours, couple of hundred bucks) to be minimally civilized. It's a good deal used, for someone who wants to make the mods. Otherwise, there are several better choices in the compact HX arena, including entries from Bezzera, Expobar, and VBM among others. Prices, for machines only, run in the $1200 - $1500 range.

If you're seriously considering the NS Musica, there's a whole world of high quality HXs, but we're talking spening money up to $2000. Still interested?

GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER

Nothing is more important than the grinder.

Rich
Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator

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