I'm on tour in Winnipeg this weekend and found a great little shop, dealing in espresso gear. They had a few Innova grinders on hand, which I've never heard of. The guy said he's had them for about 10 years, and has never been able to move them. The one I looked at had a doser, but seemed pretty small for a commercial grinder. It also looked like it had a worm drive. Sorry I can't be more specific.

I currently have a Baratza Virtuoso, which I've been able to work with and get some decent results. The guy said he could let it go for $200. His original cost was around $400. I could probably get $150 for my Virtuoso ( it's barely 6 months old and I still have the box etc.) would this be a worthwhile upgrade?

I had thought about selling the Virt. / saving up for a Vario, since I do make French Press from time to time.

Thanks

Mark Prince reviewed them and found them to be roughly equivalent to the Rocky. I owned the conical (Innova 1). This uses the very nice and very ubiquitous Trespade burrs and produces great coffee, IMO, better than the Mini or Rocky. It is however loud and slow. The Innova II had 54mm flat burrs, and was faster and more civilized, but with slightly lower grind quality. At $200 they are a great deal.

They are mechanically the same to the Ascaso grinders sold today. Ascaso is the successor name to Innova.

The one knock on them is that they "ate" the bottom of the hopper, i.e. the part that goes into the grinder throat tends to splinter and crack. Use some packing tape wrapped around the base, so it rides a little higher in the grinder throat and is buffered against expansions and contractions, to prevent this.

Thanks Jim.

Just wondering:

-What are you using now & why did you choose to upgrade?
- Would there be an appreciable difference between this grinder and the Vario in terms of taste/shot quality? (I like some of the convenience features of the Vario better, but I could let those go, given the $200 price difference)

I went from a Solis grinder (a predecessor to your Baratza) to the Innova --huge improvement, and from there to the Mini, which was not an upgrade in grind quality, but a big upgrade in convenience. I went from the Mini to the Versalab, which was an upgrade in quality of sorts, but a downgrade in reliability and usability. From there to a Compak K10, which is superlative on quality, and good on usability.

I tested the Baratza Vario, and it is very good on grind quality, and superlative on convenience. At around $400, it is a huge bargain. Since it is new, you are a guinea pig on its reliability, but Baratza has a great track record on customer service. Moreover, while they have never produced a commercial quality grinder before, I've never heard anyone complaining about their existing models' reliability.

On the other hand, I have a great affection for grinders like the Innova I with the Trespade burrs, since they offer commercial grind quality at very low cost -- a public service that is rare in the espresso world. The Vario would be a big step up on usability, but not so much on grind quality.

Good to know. Thanks again Jim.

I also looked at a compak doserless today. But that would be another $350. Surely can't justify that right now. Might go ahead with the Innova.

I read Mark's review. Pros seem to outweigh the cons. Don't really like the idea of not being able to grind for press pot anymore, but since the vast majority of my consumption is espresso, I think I can make the sacrifice.

I suppose my concern with this grinder is that I'd find it wanting and be moved to upgrade again after another 6 months- a year.

Jim, are there any steps you'd skip in retrospect? Perhaps I should just save up for a Compak or Vario.

Keith

The Innova I2 was my previous grinder. My main issue with it was the speed. My Innova was doserless and I had to stand holding the pf for something like 20 seconds (or more?) for every shot.

Speed's no concern. My Virtuoso takes about 20 sec. To grind for a double as it is. I'm concerned about the mess, grind retention, durability of the hopper and doser, and also about not being able to grind for drip or press.

brokemusician77 wrote:I suppose my concern with this grinder is that I'd find it wanting and be moved to upgrade again after another 6 months- a year.

Jim, are there any steps you'd skip in retrospect? Perhaps I should just save up for a Compak or Vario.

Keith

This is your decision.

Most people who make espresso a hobby do upgrade from an Innova or other Trespade burr grinder, since it is noisy and slow. I recommend them as the least expensive grinder with commercial level grind quality -- think of it as a match to a Gaggia or Silvia: you do all the work, spend all the time, and get the killer shot without spending a lot of money.

The Vario is far more civilized, and may have an edge on grind quality as well. It is certainly worth saving up for -- it will match up to any semi-commercial or commercial espresso machine for home use. If you really do a lot of grinding, a 2nd hand SJ might be worth the extra cost for its heavy duty build.

A big Titan grinder is actually less convenient for home use, but does deliver an edge on grind quality. Even with the QPR Titan, the Max, you are up at $850, while the others are above $1200. I would not recommend these except to people who are determined to get every nuance from high end SO coffees and blends. The quality difference between them and something like a Vario or SJ will only show up with this level of coffee. Basically, if you are not willing to occasionally spend $75 to $100 for a pound of extraordinary coffee without blinking, these grinders are a waste of time.

Well, I found someone who's interested in my Virtuoso, so I may just go ahead with this.

It also seems, from consumer reviews on Coffeegeek, that there are many happy users of the Innova, some even after 5-6 years.

I still like the idea of having the press pot, although I suppose I can make Americano's just as fast as brewing a press pot, and I'm hard-pressed to taste the difference between the two.

I may just bite the bullet and go ahead with it. What's the worst that could happen?

Like I said, if the main difference between this grinder and the Vario is convenience and not grind quality, I may just save the $250 and go with the Innova.

Thanks for your help. If I do go ahead with the purchase, I'll post the results here.