Hi guys,

This is my first post on HB and I'm glad to see all of the participation here. I'd like to ask those of you with first hand knowledge & experience with either the Vivaldi II or the La Marzocco GS/3 which machine you prefer. Both models being plumbed in versions with rotary pumps & PID control. Price not being a deciding factor here or influencing your opinion of the machines.

Now I know that there are many factors involved in achieving the perfect shot & that it's really all a matter of personal taste, however I also know that there is an acknowledged industry standard that has set the bar extremely high for that "God Shot".

Are both machines capable of a God Shot?
I like the line pressure pre-infusion of the VII & wish that the GS/3 offered this on the non-paddle version.

What have you experienced as the pro's & con's of either machine?

I appreciate your guidance, experience & knowledge.

Unfortunately, the first thing that comes to mind for me is difference in price. They share a lot of similar features, however, the tale of the tape says a lot. Since they are VERY capable, I would put the spec sheets side by side to help get a better idea of what features sound beneficial to YOU. There isn't much either machine CAN'T do, but if price wasn't an issue, I don't think there is guy here who doesn't dream about a GS/3 on their bar, expect for lucky few who already have one;)

In that price range, don't forget the speedster!

Cheers,
Jackson

First of all, welcome to HB, Jake.

I know what you asked for . . .

flyguyjake wrote:I'd like to ask those of you with first hand knowledge & experience with either the Vivaldi II or the La Marzocco GS/3 which machine you prefer . . .

but,

flyguyjake wrote:Are both machines capable of a God Shot?

Yes. Both machines are capable of producing a "god shot," IF you are. God shots are produced when everything "comes together." They are magical. They are not predictable. They cannot be planned for.

Equipment helps, but it's that fourth M that's critical . . . .

Cheers,
Jason

Hi Jake. Up front, I don't have experience with either machine. I have an argument.

This thread may be joined by some of the people who have traded a Vivaldi for a GS/3. They thought the step up was worth $3K to $4K to them.

Those people, and anyone else owning a GS/3, has always had an opportunity to easily trade for the Vivaldi and put at least $2,000 in their pocket. I've been inhaling this and other coffee forums for six months and haven't seen an indication that anyone has thought the step down was worth $2K or so to them.

This one-way traffic towards the GS/3 has occurred despite the fact that the first few hundred GS/3s sold have included some VERY troubled machines with serious problems ranging from pump failures through noise and vibration problems and into poor water flow (gicleur) and poorly-designed low-quality steam and hot water wands. And those are just SOME of the problems with a machine that - for its staggering price - should be nothing less than perfect, but for many was far from it.

Yet the owners have held on.

That's my argument, which I think may be an answer to your question.

The troubled machines - most apparently from a large first production run which sat in a warehouse for too long - seem to have been worked through. There are few reports of trouble with new machines manufactured after September 2009. If money isn't an issue, then maybe your choice is easier than you thought?

Welcome, and good luck.

boyscout wrote: This one-way traffic towards the GS/3

I don't think this is indicative of anything. You really think people are going to be running out six months after spending a fortune on an espresso machine -- much less the lustful la marzocco -- and turning around and trading it in for a machine they could have purchased 3 of to begin with? And because people aren't doing so this means the GS/3 is the better machine?

I am not here to argue the Vivi is the superior machine. I own an S1 II and love it. I have pulled shots on a friend's GS/3 and loved it as well. I think the GS/3 has an edge in the cup and a huge edge in the "coolness" factor. I seriously thought about getting one when the price dropped significantly.

At the end of the day I think Jason's advice is spot on. If you are looking for a "god shot" either machine (and many others costing less than either of these machines) is capable. One man's god shot is another man's so-so shot. Some like deep and rich, others bright and floral. If you truly are considering these machines, I would caution that I think your expectations may be too high. Neither machine is simply going to spit out god shots without impeccable attention to detail...and some luck!!

Both machines are great machines.

Do you see yourself using the GS/3 to its strengths? Using a wide array of single origin coffees, auction lots, Microlot offerings, things of that nature? Or do you see yourself sticking to blends like Toscano, Belle and Redline?

Thats how I see it. The GS/3 gives you tighter control, for those coffees that demand exactness. Its water distribution over the puck is phenomenal, and its temp control tight. More forgiving coffees, that dont necessarily demand that amount of exactness, are going to preform the same on either machine.

And thats not to say the Vivaldi is a slouch. No sir. Its rock solid stable, and very consistent. I have no worries opening a bag of something I know is going to take more then a handful of shots to dial in, because I know the Vivaldi will preform adequately, and allow ME to extract the wonderful inside those beans.

Heres one way you could decide... If you buy the VII, with the extra ~4K left over, any grinder on the market is yours. Nino, K10, whatever. But if you buy a GS/3, can you still pair it with such a grinder?

Thats how I look at it anyway....

I definitely think that the GS/3 is more unique looking as opposed to the cafe look of the VII. If both machines are equally capable of producing the finest shots then my decision becomes purely based on aesthetics. Cafe machine or a unique looking one. I just wish that the GS/3 wasn't $6k. The lowest price I was quoted was $5500. I'm not sure if that included shipping.

As far as grinders I'm considering a Mahlkonig K30 Vario, a Mazzer mini Type A, Major E, or a K-10 WBC.

What prices are you hearing on a GS/3 and from whom?

In my opinion I think both machines are standouts in their price range. In the $1500 to $2500 price range I would definitely choose the Vivaldi. In the price range to $5500 I think the GS3 would have to be one of three in the list to consider but the GS3 would probably win out. If I had chosen the Vivaldi as my first machine I would probably still have it. Jeff pretty much sums up the performance qualities of the GS3. Aesthetics, function, features, craftsmanship and quality were key factors in my decision. From the very first shot I knew that I had a machine that was going to be a pleasure to use and after three months of ownership I still feel the same. The temperature is controlled quickly and now that it is plumbed in the daily maintenance is done intuitively. The built in timer has it warmed up when I get up in the morning. My wife uses it with the same ease that I use it and quality of the pulls are predictable and consistent once you get the grind and the tamp correct. The question for me was which one to buy, the paddle or the original model GS3. There are features of the original GS3 that I wish I had access to but the paddle gives more user control of the shots and I use it all the time.

Would I trade my GS3 for a Vivaldi? Probably not but I think I would love it if I owned one.

You can't go wrong with either machine.

Jake,

If money isn't being considered, why isn't the Speedster on the list?