Nik wrote:Good to know. Please cite some specific examples of how a Speedster owner could expect to be serviced. Have you experienced it firsthand? It would be good to know.

Kees has responded promptly to any questions I've had, usually sending an answer within a few hours. As for the GS3 Gicleur issue I can tell you that with Kees grouphead design all you need to do is remove the stainless group cover & it is staring you in the face. No digging or further disassembly required. Slip in a 4mm allen, unscrew it & it is in your hand. Of course since it is located at the top of the tunnel opening instead of down at the bottom as on the GS3 it is unlikely to draw in any debris.

As an example of his level of customer service I recently received an email from Kees telling me that a new & improved expansion valve was in the mail. Evidently he had seen a few premature failures with the valve design in my machine so he had improved valves manufactured & sent them out to every Speedster owner no questions asked. I've owned a lot of different equipment in the past 45 years but I've never experienced a higher level of personal service then I get from Kees.

W.,

You've hit the nail on the head. Taking things to the next level which is pressure profiling.
Let me ask you this, and please correct me if I'm wrong...
GS/3 Paddle version manual pre-fusion only?
No ability for software programmable pre-infusion?
Also is the pre-infusion on either model line pressure or restricted pump pressure?

Also regarding the paddle use, is it a progressive pressure increase/decrease or is it pump off/on only?

I've just discovered these videos by nalundgaard on youtube



and I'm amp'd up to try this out. Seems like this would only be possible on the GS/3?

That's actually a setup I built loosely based on Greg Scace's pressure profiling design. It will go on pretty much any espresso machine with a little bit of ingenuity, so if you want something like this I wouldn't associate it with the GS3 exclusively. As the links in the youtube descriptions say, you can get way more info here, including some pretty technically detailed discussion and a loose guide for getting your own home-brew project going.

flyguyjake wrote:W.,
GS/3 Paddle version manual pre-fusion only?
No ability for software programmable pre-infusion?
Also is the pre-infusion on either model line pressure or restricted pump pressure?
Also regarding the paddle use, is it a progressive pressure increase/decrease or is it pump off/on only?

The GS3/MP has manual pre-infusion only. The way it was designed years ago it was supposed to have both programmable and manual PI capabilities. Now, in the production model the auto version has programmable PI and the paddle version has manual PI only.

The GS3/MP has line-pressure PI (and so does the Vivaldi2).

The auto version of the GS/3 has pump-driven PI.

It is possible to slowly ramp from zero pressure to line-pressure with the paddle group but mostly in a blind fashion, the pressure gauge is before the paddle, there's the gicleur in between, so you cannot really target specific "in-between" pressures reliably, but you can soften the ramp for PI.
Once you switch the pump on, it will ramp to the pump pressure within a few seconds (as determined mostly by the flow restrictor).

I have thought about adding a pressure profiling setup a la Greg Scace, but I am still exploring the many possibilities of pre-brewing with regulated line-pressure PI.

W.

Six months ago I was going through the same debate and also had the Alex Duetto II in the mix. In the end I went with the GS3 and to be honest I have mixed emotions. I really like the machine and every once and a while I get everything just right and BAM. But most of the time the shots are good, not great. I am still optimistic that with some more training and a lot more practice the GS3 is a tool that will allow me to get that extra 1% or so more often but I am just as convinced that I haven't pulled a shot yet that I couldn't have pulled on another competent machine.

Things I like about the GS3:
- built in timer to turn the machine off/on. Always warm in the morning
- built in shot clock
- I don't have mine plumbed in but I have the option. The water tank is easy to get to and easy to clean
- Integrated group head. Never had another machine so I don't really know how big a deal this is but it seems nice.
- Easy temperature control. I am luck to have a few nice shops near me in NYC (Kaffe 1668/RBC) and it is nice to be able to grab some beans and dial in my machine at least in terms of temp to what they use at these shops.
- I think the GS3 looks pretty cool
- Unlike the Speedster you can run on 115V/15amp circuit
- I don't have it but you can now get a GS3 with a paddle group
- My wife uses it
- No other home machine has all of the features of the GS3 in a single package

Things I don't like about the GS3:
- It is loud. I am sure if I went through some of the hoops others have gone through- longer hose, dynamat on the drip tray and so on, I could tame some of the noise but out of the box, the machine is noisy and rattles.
- Gicleur has clogged on me once already requiring me to take the machine apart (a bit anyway). I am fairly sure that this problem will happen again.
- First two points really are part of the thing I like least about the GS3, for the price, it just feels a bit cheap and clunky. Since I am not an expert barista, knowing what I know now, instead of buying the GS3 I would have picked a different machine, put an extra 1K into a grinder and put 1-2K in my pocket and paid for my coffee for a few years. But it would be a tough call.

Regards- Jeremy

If money for the espresso machine is not limited, I would get GS/3. But I think the grinder is more important here (since both espresso machines are perfectly capable of a God Shot). I would rather get Vivaldi with Nino or compak K-10 WBC, than GS/3 with some inferior grinder.

dialydose wrote:So you would spend $7,500 on a machine and at the first sign of trouble you would "dump it in a flash" to get something else?

Jason, "first sign of trouble" is entirely your phrase, I said nothing like it, and few if any people are paying $7,500 for the GS/3. But isn't debate about what I might do a little off the beam in this thread?

Of more interest to people considering the GS/3 vs the Vivaldi and reading this thread is the fact that about 900 people have paid the very high price for the GS/3, and they are not dumping them. They could sell the GS/3 pretty easily, buy something else, and have significant money left over. But keep watching eBay, other for-sale forums, Chris Coffee... there aren't a lot of used GS/3s around.

We'll just have to disagree, because I do think that's significant to someone for whom the price alone is not a major decision factor, and who is considering the GS/3.

Isn't a 1-group Synesso Cyncra in the same ballpark pricewise as the GS3 and the Speedster? It's reputed to be on the same par as a La Marzocco, and they're made in the States so service issues may be slightly easier than the Netherlands. Michael

Synesso 1 group (120V or 240V): $8500 + S&H (expect ~$400)
Speedster (240V only): €4975 + import duties + S&H (~$6770 + exchange fees + ~$270 + ~$400)
GS3 (120V only): May retail for $7500, but that number is wholly imaginary. $5500-6500 is a realistic price.

Certainly all in the same league, but the Speedster and Synesso both command a decent premium, not to mention significant lead time. Someone quoted the Speedster at 6 months, and that sounds right. Synessos are also built to order if you get one new, and the lead time is at least several weeks if not something over a month.

If you like the look of the Synesso and you can fit it in your space (it really is a beast!), it's a truly fantastic machine. I've spent a decent amount of time pulling shots on all 3 of these machines, and they are all really impressive to work with. I am happy with the call I made, personally, to get the GS3, but that's totally just me. In terms of end-user repair and maintenance, the Synesso is a clear far-and-away winner, with the Speedster in second for its cramped layout and the GS3 on the bottom for a similarly cramped arrangement and lack of dedicated brew boiler drain (uses the OPV, which is a pain compared to a ball valve).

Shadowfax,

Any chance you've got a price range on the Synesso Hydra 2 group? Seems like a pretty K...A.. machine!