Hi there,

I'm new to this forum and new to espresso machines and real espresso shots at home.
I love reading here as there's tremendous amount of information, and I have already learned a lot from this page.

I'm thinking of buying either a Rocket Giotto Evolutione or a La Spaziale Vivaldi II S1.

I have used both machines several times. I like the shots from both machines and they're both easy to use and from my understanding both are very well built.

My question is, which one of the 2 machines can I leave ON day in day out without ever turning it off and always have ready hot water ready to make espresso not having to wait more than few minutes at the time?

This is for my kitchen at home. I basically make 2 shots in the morning before going to work and then 3-4 shots at night and on the weekend for most part I make 10-15 shots.

I know i can use a timer on either machine to come on at certain time in the morning so when I wake up I don't have to power up and wait to worm up the machine.

This is the cheap digital timer that you can use for any machine, nothing special, all this is is that you can set the times for different time of the day and different day of the week to come on and off, I'm sure all of you have used a timer like this for various applications.

Giotto normally takes about 20-30 minutes to worm up and ready to pull shots. Vivaldi takes about double that time.

Which one of the 2 machine should I buy if I'm planning to not have timer and would like to leave the machine ON kinda permanently 24/7 ?

I know if there is a good answer to my question, this is the best place to get it

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

I am just about to order a replacement for my aging Pasquini Livia, and the the Vivaldi II S1 is on the top of my list. I also have about the same plan as you as far as usage goes.

I hope others jump in, but I believe that you cannot use a conventional timer with the electronic system of the Vivaldi. However, they have a very nice timer that can be added. The nice thing about the Vivaldi timer is that, while you can have it set as desired, you can also override it just by using the standard on/off buttons.

I don't put a timer on my specific machine because I know I would, sometime, have the timer turn it on with me leaving the brew switch on by mistake, emptying the contents on the counter and flow. [I actually did this already. Had a power failure and for some reason I flipped the brew switch rather than the on/off switch. Came home to a wet floor and an empty tank . . . ] But this could not happen with the Vivalidi. I don't think it could happen either with a manual e-61 system either.

Hi JonF,

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that on Vivaldi I won't be able to use the regular timer due to the fact the Vivaldi works with touch pad buttons and only vivaldi timer should be used if one don't plan to go in and install normal cheap timer behind the surface.

My question though is what would happen if I leave the machine ON 24/7 even though I pull not more than 5 shots on a normal day? In long term will this hurt any of the seals, valves, the heat exchange or the tank etc...?

At the office we have the Vivaldi 2, it's always on 24/7 but we pull at least 100 shots per day excluding weekends. So far after 3-4 years of constant use and some time abuse the machine is still working like day one without any major service being done... Impressive ha?

Giotto Evolutione on the other hand, much better looking machine and well build but I was told it's no where near the quality of the Vivaldi and therefore I can leave the Vivaldi on forever but not the Giotto but I wonder, would Vivaldi be alright if you left it on and pull only few shots a day? Which would bring me back to my question, will it
be alright if any of the 2 were left ON if you pulled only
few shots per day?

The S1 is a commercial machine and can therefore be left on.

Also, if you haven't done so already, read the very complete reviews on both machines at Bella Barista (do a Google search...).

I'm deeply puzzled. Takes half hour for Vivaldi S1 to reach operating temp? And you have used one before?
Mine has never taken more than 15 minutes in morning....ever.

My wife says she gets severe migraine without cup of espresso immediately on arising so short lead time heating up is crucial.

I bought it new in August. Hmmmm.
Its about an hour between my first and second cup. I turn it off during this hour cause it only takes three minutes to get back up to temp.

Half of an hour to reach brew temp is pretty normal, for a machine of Vivaldi class. Roughly speaking, the lesser a machine takes to reach temp the lesser metal has to heat; coffee brewing is all about temp stability and pressure control, and the bigger the machine is, the longer takes to heat up, the better temp stability has. You said that in your office you have a 5 years old Vivaldi on 24/7 and everything goes fine. Leave a machine on 24/7 it's bad for electric power bill (you can read more on this here at HB); I think that turning off and on a machine every day uses less power but calls for slightly more maintenancein the time being, due to cold and hot interleaved every day.

Pierluigi

I have the Vivaldi and don't use any timer. I simply leave the brew boiler on 24/7 and turn the steam boiler on when I need it. It takes about 5-7 minutes for the steam boiler to come up to temp. The power usage of just the steam boiler is minimal, about like leaving a 60 watt light bulb on.

Like several others of these [insert DB machine] vs. [insert HX machine] posts, it comes down to the realities of a DB vs an HX machine. That should guide your choice between the machines. I have never used the Giotto, but the price is at or near the top of that class of HX machine. Either machine should produce excellent coffee on par with the other, it really comes down to the differences between a DB and HX machine (to which there are probably 1,000 posts).

I own a Vivaldi II currently, and I leave her on all the time. Maybe, sometimes, Ill turn off the steam boiler if I noticed I haven't used it for a day or so, but otherwise, machine is fully on unless Im away from home for an overnight.

I did the same thing when I owned my Quickmill Anita, which, for purposes of this conversation, is the same thing as the Giotto, an E61 HX machine.


Lots of opinions about whether or not to leave the machines on, or turn them off.. And maybe neither side is right. However, fact remains, they're commercially designed machines, and are designed with being left on 24/7 in mind.


(BTW, Ive had the VII for over a year now, and I must say, 'tis a wonderful machine to use. my vote goes to the Vivaldi. Also, if you haven't already, head over to S1Cafe.com Its a vivaldi specific forum, with loads of great info and tips on these machines.)

Wow, I'm impressed. So nice of you guys jumping in with your ideas and experiences, this is much appreciated.

In respond to my post one of our friend mentioned about the power usage/saving and the fact that his V2 takes very short time to heat up and ready to pull.

Well, the V2 that I'm used to at work has always been on and I've never seen it off so I can't really tell first hand what ever time it may really take to heat up and 100% ready to brew but I was told by several dealers that due to the large DB the V2 takes much longer to heat up than something like Giotto.

The Giotto I know first hand that it takes minimum 20 minutes to heat up so I would personally wait half hour before brewing.

Regarding power, unfortunately I'm not in charge of taking care of the V2 at work but i sure use it at least 4 times a day and have never seen it making anyone wait too long in line.

Now, I understand that I can spend the $200 or so and buy the timer for Vivaldi and take care of timing but would prefer not to spend more money.

Especially when the dealer is suggesting that I have to spend money on buying a pressure regulator to regulate to 2 bar or so in order to not put too much pressure on the components. The dealer is not going to honor the warranty if I don't install the pressure regulator, another $100 or so, plus the filter on the way.

At first I was told that I have to install a water softener too but convinced the dealer that we don't need the softener here in Vancouver due to super soft water we have here in Vancouver.

So I don't want to spend too much money on the top of already what I'll be paying for the machine.

I was also told that Vivaldi 2 is much better build than Giotto, I'm not too sure but kinda believe that. But again as far as looks go, for my taste I definitely like the look of Giotto better for home use and V2 looks more for office or small business...! But in most cases you can't have all in one package...!

If I end up going with V2 I think I'll leave the machine on but turn off the steam as I wont use it much anyway.

Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to respond to my post.