Hi everybody I have been using my la Pavoni professional since 1986 Without really Knowing the Science and Proper methods of making espresso This site {what an eye opener} seems to have all the good advice anybody needs
From what i have had time to read on this site i would say the main advantage this machine has over the E61 machines is the convenience and fact that it is not much longer than boiling a kettle and you are ready to make Espresso as opposed to the E 61 machines that seem to need an hour or more to heat up and are probably better left on all day {only just found out what an E61 is} all new to me you see

The Disadvantages of the Pavoni is the totally unpredictable shot Quality i must admit i have never really had undrinkable coffee from this machine apart from when the coffee is too course and just runs straight through But some cups are definitely far better and worse than others

I would say the Pressurestat now needs replacing as often the pressure just continues to rise until i presume what is a heatstat at the bottom of the boiler cuts the power from the element then you have to vent all the pressure of wait a few minutes for the stat to reset then Start again so i tend now to manually regulate the pressure with the on and off switch unless the Pressure state has returned to a stable mode

What i am wondering is, Is it worth sending this machine over 20 yr old machine off for repair and a service at what would be a fairly high cost, or just ordering a new Professional to be sent to me or would i be far better to Invest alot more money in an E61 machine I am not what you would call wealthy but if spending out two three or even four times the price on an E61 Machine is going to give me a Better Espresso/Cappuccino. Perhaps easier to make and more consistent then the extra investment is worthwhile especially if my Wife can use it

Also i DO need to invest in a Grinder as we are using (Dare i mention it ) Preground and packaged Either Lavazza Red/ Black,or Illy the grind varies on these and at the Moment Illy is so fine it wont go through the Pavoni the Lavazza has gone to course so at the moment we are using Costa coffee as the grind at the moment seems to be correct for the Pavoni at least after you have spent a few minutes Packing the Puck just right
From what i can see on this site, and as we only make a few shots a day, it would be a choice between the Cimbali Junior or the Mazzer Mini E would one of these be a good move

As Somebody else on this site has said somewhere it is a pity there isnt somewhere where you can go touch feel and Demo these Machines and Grinders

Regards Londonplug

If you were in the US, I would say go with Ophan Espresso rebuilding.

Dunno about where you live. Do you have an actual quote? I didn't think it cost that much to rebuild, although I do recall seeing some variations on the Pavoni Pro - maybe some models need a different piston on the rebuild?

I'm thinking you would do a lot better to stick with the lever that you know - or get a new lever, and get a better grinder - used super Jolly or better.

To me, seems like the major difference is how many shots you are serving at a time

Lever is great, maybe even better for several shots at a time.

E-61 or double boiler is better if you're going to be having 8 people over for brunch.

Welcome to HB Andy.

You have asked a few questions here and I will offer you my take on each of them. You have a classic vintage Pavoni and getting a replacement new one is not going to get you any material advantages. In actual fact, some of the parts on the newer machines are inferior to the oldies. For a fascinating look at the history of the pavonis and their parts, have a look at http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_pr_eng.htm - now there's a Pavoni enthusiast for you.

It sounds like to me that your thermostat might simply have some scale build which can be removed. I dont know how comfortable you are with diy, but another advantage of the Pavonis is their simplicity of design and therefore ease of repair in the rare occasions you need it. Have a look at this site which is as comprehensive as you can get when it comes to Pavoni repairs: http://www.pavoniexpress.com/trouble.html, as well as this Forum, where there will be plenty of info on how to replace or fix a pressure stat. This might save you some cash, if your repair is indeed that costly (which being based in the UK myself, I can understand). Otherwise, a single repair after 20+ years of use is pretty exceptional, and perhaps another way looking at it.

Your other question on whether you should go for E61 semi HX or DB. There are indeed advantages to these machines over Pavoni's - the main ones being temperature management, which is the ability to pull back to back shots quickly in succession without overheating; steaming strength; ability to pull a shot and steam at the same time. Some would say ease of use and consistency of shot versus the levers, others would disagree. There are Pavoni advantages too - speed of warm up, portability, ability to properly preinfuse, reliability, cost.

However your main inquiry centred on whether your espresso will be "better" with an E61, then the that answer to that, IMO, is an emphatic "no". Different yes, better no. E61 machines automatically pump water at a constant rate at around 8-9 bar (adjustable). Pavonis machines rely on you as the pump, and you can vary this as you pull the shot, although you tend to find that the first to middle part of your pull is at the greatest pressure, then tailing off. This has an impact on the taste of the espresso. If you like loads of crema, booming chocolate notes with triple ristrettos packing in 20+ grams of coffee in a puck, then an E61 might be for you. However if you like a more delicately balanced coffee, nuanced and rounded with a little less crema - more like what you might find in Italy, then the advantages lie easily with the levers. It is a long winded way of say that it is very much down to personal preference, and of all the clear advantages an E61 might have over your Pavoni, better espresso isn't one of them. Far from it.

So I were you, I would get the old girl repaired, ideally by yourself if you can. Particularly if you only have a few shots per day as you say do. Pav Professionals were born for that purpose.

Now, for the most important advice.....

....a word on your coffee. I would urge you to stop using pre ground coffee - Lavazza, costa, Illy - whatever, and get yourself a high quality grinder as a priority. The grinders of the class you mention are very good, and with coffee from quality UK internet suppliers the like Square Mile, Londiunium Espresso, Has Bean, Monmouth, you will notice a huge improvement in taste using your current machine. Do this I can assure you will have a much more dramatic impact on your coffee than by buying a E61 machine in isolation.

So therefore, repaired Professional, new grinder, better coffee - and presto, you will be in espresso heaven.

Good luck!

That's excellent advice there from Gino in my opinion.

Grinder-wise you may also want to consider the Mahkonig Vario which is available from Coffeehit in London for a good price (you'll find lots of good reviews of it here under the name Baratza Vario, which is what it's called in the States). If you really want cast-iron tank-like build, then go for the Mazzer - either the Mini or the Super Jolly if the bigger size isn't a problem, but the Vario is reputed to produce shots as good as the latter.

Let me know if you don't fancy repairing your Pav yourself and I can some send you a message about who to avoid and who to try. But it's worth trying to give everything a good descale yourself first.

Cheers

Mike

ziobeege_72 wrote:....a word on your coffee. I would urge you to stop using pre ground coffee - Lavazza, costa, Illy - whatever, and get yourself a high quality grinder as a priority. The grinders of the class you mention are very good, and with coffee from quality UK internet suppliers the like Square Mile, Londiunium Espresso, Has Bean, Monmouth, you will notice a huge improvement in taste using your current machine. Do this I can assure you will have a much more dramatic impact on your coffee than by buying a E61 machine in isolation.

+1

Without question, pre-ground is the worst way to buy coffee. There will be a night and day difference in the taste between (who knows how old) pre-ground coffee and fresh roasted-to-order beans which you grind yourself.

Another one highly recommeding Gino's advice. Rebuild the old girl, and take the money you saved to put towards a good grinder. You will wonder why you waited so long to do so.

Many Thanks for your advice There is a Certainly a Double Triple Masters Degree of information on this site Alone, Mind Blowing. My conclusion is i have been doing every thing wrong Using the Single Basket and Packing it solid and Finally Compressing it onto the Showerscreen it would appear that Nobody uses the Single basket Yes i will keep the Pavoni It is in excellent nearly as new cosmetic condition so will take the Pressure stat out once again and try to Descale the inside of it {Only flushed it last time}send off for a new Double Basket and Make a Decision on a Grinder Super Jolly would be a Bit too big to get past the Customs{my wife}so will look i think at the Mazzer Mini e, Cimbali Junior, or Mahkonig vario Ease of use, Wife friendly {not to messy] and the ability to fine tune a very fine grind Being the most important Factors
I think eventually{as soon as possible the customs will wear it} i will go the same route that most of you have done and have two machines, at first site That Elektra A3 looks Very nice indeed and certainly looks a nice bit of engineering for £1,600 to £1,700 Funny thing is i could Get my wife to submit to the Benefits of Spending out on that far easier than spending the less amount needed for a grinder
Hope this Reply gets on the Board tried yesterday but it Just disappeared
Once again many thanks for your expert advice
Regards Londonplug