La Pavoni Build Quality Changes?

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
JamesLazyBones
Posts: 5
Joined: 8 years ago

#1: Post by JamesLazyBones »

"On the Millennium machines the fork can be made of potmetal, and you don't want to overstress it. Robert's also frequently written about the deterioration in build quality on recent La Pavoni levers. I agree entirely. The potmetal on the machine I saw in the repair shop was rusting after the chrome had flaked off. And yet these machines can pull nice shots and steam well. How much can they cheapen them before this interferes with their function? Try the insufficiently attached wooden boiler caps that come loose and risk sudden release of steam pressure!"
After living with my Ranchilio now for 6 years, I am thinking of purchasing a La Pavina Romatica. However, I am hearing that build quality and lower quality materials "pot metal and plastic threads on boiler filler caps" have crept into the manufacturing process and this is putting me off.
Can somebody please help me, have La Pavina improved the build quality on their lever machines in recent years, or is it still pot metal and plastic caps?
Please excuse me if this question has been asked before, I could not find it anywhere.

wkmok1
Posts: 272
Joined: 10 years ago

#2: Post by wkmok1 »

James,

It's a matter of expectations. Dr. Gary and Prof Pavlis have museum quality machines that can be used daily. A new machine bought today may not achieve such a high status.

I've had my LP Stradivari for about 18 months. Followed the advice to the 2 gentlemen and many here with good success. I'll attempt to address some of the concerns, from my perspective.

1. Pot metal. I believe this is related to the lever and the base. On an EP the lever is constructed of 2 pieces, a rod and a U-shaped part. The connection between them can come loose. On the Stradivari, the lever is a single piece. There is side to side play in the lever. Doesn't affect performance, but a couple of nylon washers make the lever feel sooo much better. The base of the Stradivari feels very substantial. I have not looked at a regular EP closely to compare though.

2. Loose cap. My LP-S has the wooden knob. I'd assume it will come loose one day. Now that I am warned, I am not too worried about the safety aspect. When the glue comes loose, the knob will spin forever. If one stops turning when the knob is snug, that point will never occur. BTW, the cap does not need to be heaved on. Apply a bit of Dow 111 to the threads and it would seal with almost no effort.

3. Plastic piston/sleeve. The latest LPs have brass pistons, so problems here. It would be nice to if the sleeve is brass too. The consensus estimate is the plastic sleeve would last for approx 10 years. I guess I am ok with having to replace it at a cost of $25 when the time comes.

The one advice I found the most useful is adding thermometry to the group. Takes all the guess work out.

So far, I'm very happy with mine.
Winston

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drgary
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#3: Post by drgary »

Thanks, Winston, for very good information on the LP Stradivari.

There are a couple of points. I don't believe the base of the recent La Pavonis is potmetal. It is plain steel with thin chrome plating, so it can rust.

I believe you were saying that since the piston is now brass, it is not a problem. Transitional La Pavonis in the late 1990's to those with the Millennium group in the early 2000's had a plastic piston that would eventually fail. They reversed that error. The brass piston is the same size as in the older La Pavonis and works well within the current model's plastic sleeve, which is a consumable part that will deform over time. It took about 10 years for the one in my Millennium La Pavoni to deform. Replacing it was inexpensive.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

wkmok1
Posts: 272
Joined: 10 years ago

#4: Post by wkmok1 »

Thanks Gary. Left out the "not" with respect to the piston being not a problem any more. :oops:
Winston

wkmok1
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Joined: 10 years ago

#5: Post by wkmok1 »

One interesting observation. The lever on the Stradivari is only weakly attracted to my super strong magnets.
Winston

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rpavlis
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#6: Post by rpavlis »

I have always viewed the problem with the polymer piston liners a bit differently than others. I am concerned that La Pavoni will change models and quickly "orphan" the polyphenylene sulphide cylinder liners. The problem with polyphenylene sulphide is mostly that its glass Temperature is around 85C. Although this is known to be a wonderful polymer for some purposes at temperatures far more elevated than in espresso machines, it is subjected to severe loads above the glass temperature in espresso machines. The load is most severe on the now discontinued pistons where the steel rod screws into the piston, slow deformation of the pistons results in their loosening and coming detached. Eventually they also would commonly fail. The cylinder walls are subjected to high outward pressure when the polymer is hot. Even though this polymer is normally excellent at these temperatures, it slowly creeps. This both weakens it and also causes it to expand outward so people have difficulty removing them without destroying them after they have "crept" for a while. Also constant thermal cycling results in changes in the degree of crystallinity which also causes volume contraction of the polymer in time. However I suspect that when liners that have not been used are decades old they will still be in perfect condition. Perhaps someone would start making replacement liners whenever La Pavoni stops making and selling them!

Otherwise if one purchase one of these machines it might be wise to buy two or three spare cylinder liners with it!

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drgary
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#7: Post by drgary »

rpavlis wrote:Otherwise if one purchase one of these machines it might be wise to buy two or three spare cylinder liners with it!
Or buy a "museum piece" suitable for daily use like Robert and I have done! :lol:
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

wkmok1
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#8: Post by wkmok1 »

You are just making us jealous :P
Winston

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drgary
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#9: Post by drgary »

Actually you can still buy and refurbish 1st gen machines for well under the price of buying new. If you buy one fully refurbished and it's a version 1.6 or 1.7 with a removable shower screen or an earlier one with that conversion (like my version 1.4), servicing it is no harder than for a modern machine.
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

JamesLazyBones (original poster)
Posts: 5
Joined: 8 years ago

#10: Post by JamesLazyBones (original poster) »

Gentlemen,
Thank you so much for assisting me. It has been a real help.
Today, I started the campaign to purchase a La Pavoni lever machine, most likely the Romantica. The elegance and purity of the design really grabs at my heart and already I can imagine it sitting proudly and aloofly on our kitchen bench.
Having failed Lego at school, my technical abilities aren't too high, so I intend getting It serviced at our local dealer, who by a happy coincident is only 10 minutes down the road, every 12 months. I am very particular about keeping my machine clean and treating it with much respect, so although quality of parts maybe an issue with the LP, I am hopeful I will get many years of faithful service from her. Did I say her? Gee's I really need holidays.
Having played with my Ranchilio for a number of years, I have worked out the importance of the grind and tamp, particularly when the weather changes, and in Melbourne, that can be four or five times a day.... I am prepared for the steep learning curve.
With regards to the upcoming campaign with her Ladyship, I have planted the seed (coffee of course), and I think she will weaken and allow me to open her purse strings (watch the moths fly out) to purchase the LP. I will keep you informed.
Once again, thanks guys, much appreciated.
Regards,
James.

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