Howdy

The forum might be called "home barista", but I've been reading a whole lot of good info on professional machines here, so hopefully someone can present an opinion.

I'm hoping to open a cafe in the next year or so. I'm planning very heavily now and even starting to buy equipment.

Out of no-where, my mind got set on a Linea 3 group automatic, with the welded groups. There are lots of potential mods to be done on lineas, but I thought "why not just save the trouble and buy an FB/80?".

So what opinions do you have? A search didn't turn up much at all regarding the FB/80.

For either one I'd be going for refurbished, 3 group, automatic.

Is the FB/80 worth the extra dollars? It does provide a positive brand image for the cafe due to the "oooh pretty machine" factor

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I like the clean lines and SS gleam of the Linea.

However, if you prefer the looks of the FB do not get a Linea and regret your decision later.

Either are quite capable in the cup, so in this case looks preference matter.

Yeah sometimes the FB looks a little like a truck to me (very bulky). My main draw with regards to appearance is just how the customer would react. I have to admit that I still get a little glow in my heart when I walk into a new cafe with a FB standing proud.

One cannot dismiss the power of placebo when it comes to the senses. If people see the FB, they will probably be impressed and their minds will trick them into thinking that the coffee is that little bit tastier than it really is.

However, for now I'm just curious about the actual coffee making performance of the Linea versus the FB. I've consistently heard good things about the Linea, but the FB has more features (notably preinfusion and a PID) so it SHOULD be quite a bit better.

Coffee quality wise (appearance aside for now), is the FB worth the extra $$$?

Thanks

Hugo

If you buy a brand new Linea these days, I believe you can get it with "all the modern conveniences." It will not have the brain box with custom PID that the GB5 and FB80 (and GS3) sport, but it can be (I believe, now always is, at least in the US) factory-PIDed. The boilers can be ordered as individual or single as well (a 3-group with 3 individual boilers, or 1 big one with 3 heads) for any La Marzocco.

So, if you're buying new, I believe the FB80 vs. GB5 vs. Linea debate is entirely about aesthetics and convenience. The FB80/GB5 will have a more convenient way to adjust the boiler temperature, have an automatic backflush feature, etc. Of course, if you go AV over EE on any model, you are choosing to have volumetric dosing as an option in shot pulling. A lot of places widely eschew this as bad-habit forming; I don't think that's necessarily the case. On the Linea at least, though—going AV over EE adds electronics and flowmeters that are much more expensive to repair and replace than the EE parts. Beyond that, I really think it's mostly about looks. I personally like the FB80 a lot, and a nicely kept Linea as well. The GB5's looks always kind of bothered me.

Of course, if you go with an older Linea, many bets may be off. La Marzocco, as I understand it, has tweaked much about its machines under the hood to make them perform more stably and repeatably. Older Lineas won't necessarily reflect this... so if you care, you probably want to find a specific one to ask about... or maybe Paul Pratt will chime in.

Purely from an aesthetics standpoint, I find the GB/5 the prettiest of them all. And since you are looking at used, the difference in price between a Linea, GB/5, and FB/80 of the same age and in similar condition is probably pretty small, especially when averaged over the lifetime you'll have the machine.

Pay a little more, if necessary, and get the one you really want, otherwise you'll always think...I should have bought the ???? instead.

Thanks very much Do you mean ask about a specific year?

Both machines would be reconditioned 2nd hand. The linea would have to be welded-group so that I know it's not too old and so that I can do the hybrid cap mod. After doing that and adding a PID it should be a pretty serious machine, but this is when I'm thinking that getting a reconditioned FB MIGHT be worth the cost- to save on doing those 2 mods.

There's no way I could justify the expense of a new FB (like $6000 more than the Linea), but reconditioned the price difference would probably just be like $1000 which might cover most of the cost of the mods anyway.

I would get the FB80, in that case. I've PIDed a Linea before, rebuilt steam wands and descaled boilers. That kind stuff is a lot of work—I bet the group head mod is even worse (but I don't know for sure.). If you're good for the work and figuring out how to do it yourself, you can probably save something like $500. I doubt it's worth it unless you're wanting to get into the machine and get the hands-on experience.

My intuition tells me that you should get the FB80. Does intuition count?

1. If this gives you a warm fuzzy feeling when you walk into a shop, get it.

2. I think the fb80 is the prettiest of the 2, or 3. Especially I think in the eyes of you female customers. You want more female customers, they bring friends with them...

3. For a $1000 difference?? How many espresso based drinks do you estimate that you will sell on a day? Even if you sell 150 and make only $1 profit on each, you'll cover the $1000 in a week.

Get the machine that calls your name and smiles at you when you see it. It will make you better drinks and make you more money in the end.

How much are you estimating you'll pay for refurbished for those 2 where you are? And how old?

My local cafe of choice uses an FB70, which is just a dressed up Linea, I think. A midpoint between your shortlist choices.

hugz wrote:There's no way I could justify the expense of a new FB (like $6000 more than the Linea), but reconditioned the price difference would probably just be like $1000 which might cover most of the cost of the mods anyway.

If you are looking at a 3 group Linea, with Piero Caps and PID'd brew boiler you are looking at probably closer to $1600 worth of modifications (parts only). Piero Cap kit is usually around $400, or more depending on the version of Linea you have, and you would need 3 of those. You can buy the kit for the PID, or parts bin it, but your still going to spend at least $200 on the parts. Then if your not handy it will cost you for install.

I just rebuilt a 1998 Linea 2AV, the PID is actually really easy to install, just need to source some good wire, and find a place to mount the controller and the SSR. That being said, if you do not already have the machine stripped to the frame, installing the thermocouple, might be a nightmare due to it's angle, and the fact that needs clearance to get in place. As for the Piero caps, I'm going to say on a scale of 1-10 (1 being easy, 10 being difficult) they are somewhere in the range of 6.

I personally love the straight sided, "industrial" look of the Linea, and instantly notice it in any cafe. That being said, the FB80 is the opposite, with very sexy curves. If your into customizing the machine to match your Cafe, the FB80 would be a better choice, as it's skin is obviously easy to paint, and customize, where as the Linea, has enough panels, trim and screws to make a grown man cry when he has to remove the inner most layer to find out what is leaking.