Hi, I am not very experienced in the espresso world, and this forum was always of great help.

I am giving away my Brewtus iv-R and getting a new machine and a grinder. The budget is an issue, of course, but the first priority is to get the best pressure profiling machine with a saturated group and hopefully with some programmability. Below I list some of my options, and would appreciate any comments, and any advice, even quick and brief. I am still a newbie, did not use anything besides one E61 brewtus machine, and it is *very* difficult for me to decide. Here are my options.

1. GS3 MP. Everything looks almost perfect. Compact size, biggest discount 10% off. Huge reservoir (no plumbing), 120 V, no hassle installation. Looks like no problems at all! But it has only manual profiling, and from the videos I can see that people cannot really control the exact pressure by hand. So, no programmability, no repeatability. Fun to play with, but I am afraid I might have more bad shots, than with the others.

2. Could get Synesso MVP Hydra for $10,900. The problem is that it is 3" higher and 3* deeper than GS3 (it is 24" deep and my countertops are exactly 24"). The problem is that it needs plumbing and it is 220V. There is just one place I could put it, and plumbing there is problematic. So, too many problems. And it has only 4-stages ramping profiling, not an analog type profiling that I could have with MP. But may be it is OK?

2. Slayer. Could get it for less than $8K, fits nicely under the cabinets, and it looks good. But it needs plumbing. This might be OK, I could put it closer to my sink, so may be it is not a big not a problem. Still, no plumbing for GS3 is a big advantage.

Besides, I'd say (and again, I do not understand much in these things) it is kind of low in profiling, you can only program pre infusion, and may the 3rd ramp. That is, not too much control. If I'd be 100% sure that even with this limited profiling I could get consistent shots not worse than with the others, I would go ahead with the Slayer.

3. Finally LM Strada EP 1 group. Not available in the US. Special order, pre-pay in advance, get it in 4-6 months from Italy. The price is OK, though, $11,300 for such a full featured machine. It has a reservoir, so I could put it quite far from the sink. 220v, a bit more installation headache than with GS3. Looks OK, but the real problem is in that it is too deep, 26 1/2 in. My countertops are only 24". Could place it in my dining room, but it might look ugly there, the room is not too large. Not sure, may this is the way to go.

So, there is no best solution. Even though I like to experiment, and MP gives more possibilities, but in the end all I want is to have consistently nice shots. Will I have them with the GS3 MP? Is repeatability a problem, from the experience?

People praise Slayer, but it has limited profiling possibilities. But may be it's OK, all it matters is the results in the cup,

So, a difficult last minute choice! Can you comment, please? And don't laugh if some of my perceptions are somewhat naive or amateur.

Thanks.

I was in the exact same boat as you. With pretty much the same thought process about sizing, repeat ability, etc. For now, I've decided to wait on an upgrade to my machine and just wait for my Monolith grinder to come in to see how that effects my shots (Using a Rocket HX machine). I'm also considering the Decent espresso machine when it comes out, but waiting to hear reviews. And honestly, not really a fan of the looks of it.

I would be hesitant with the Slayer if size is an issue. I took at a look at it in real life, and it's fairly sizable (length wise). I was almost set on the Slayer for a bit till I saw it in real life, and realized it was too big for my use.

One thing that caught my eye recently was this thread:

Paddle group mod for La Marzocco etc...

If I read it correctly, it could bring programmable shot pressure to the GS3. Might be an ideal machine for you with that mod.

2. Could get Synesso MVP Hydra for $10,900. The problem is that it is 3" higher and 3* deeper than GS3 (it is 24" deep and my countertops are exactly 24").

Is the Synesso really only 3" taller than the GS3?

During my research of the same two machines, I saw the GS3 listed with a height of 15" (for the MP), and the Synesso listed at 21". I did see another number for the Synesso somewhere, at some point...but even that number was like 19" or 20".

Is 21" an accurate number (I assume that's taken at the peak of the rail)?

No offense meant, but why do you feel that a pressure profiling machine is necessary for you? It seems a bit strange that you call yourself a newbie, but then you want to spend $7,000 or more on a pressure profiling machine. It seems like maybe you have an idea that such a machine will magically make espresso easier or better than your current machine, which is no slouch. Sometimes adding a feature like pressure profiling can just complicate the equation and make it harder to pull a good shot, not easier. Of course, if you want to pull shots with certain types of tricky roasts or single origin beans, then pressure profiling can be the best way to do that. But simply looking for a pressure profiling machine because it's more expensive or has more features doesn't really make much sense, at least to me.

Most of the time, it's better to upgrade your grinder first, or work on basic technique. Also, as far as machine upgrades go, there are plenty of good machines without pressure profiling that are capable of making great espresso.

However, if you do want a profiling machine, there's the Vesuvius, which fits most of your criteria except for the lack of a saturated group, and which costs a lot less than the other machines you mentioned. Again, I would say that a saturated group isn't necessary to pull a great shot. Other factors like the grinder, beans, and technique are much more important to the result.

Anyway, I hope this doesn't come off as condescending or offensive. If you have your heart set on a certain type of machine, I can certainly understand that. Sometimes the heart wants what it wants. But it's sometimes worthwhile to take a good look at the reasons for getting a machine and asking if it's really necessary for what you're trying to do.

Good luck with your decision.

Thank you for your replies. Just to add to what I wrote above. I am upgrading my grinder as well. I am on the waiting list for the Monolith flat. It should be available only in November, so I may go ahead with the EG-1. I buy a lot of SO beans from a local store (Armeno Coffee roasters is across the street), and even try to light roast myself using hottop. Hence it should be, perhaps, interesting to play with pressure/flow profiling.

I would appreciate more opinions from more people. I never actually used any of these machines! Leaning towards GS3 MP, but what I am scared is that with low repeatability I would just not be able to consistently pull good shots...

Personally, if it was me, I was in a hurry and I had what you have, I'd buy an EG-1, use it for 6 months with the Brewtus and then decide what to do. I'd say buy a Monolith, but that's 6 months out if you make it on the list. Next time sales might only be open for an hour the way it's going.

Ira

I think I will go ahead with EG-1, but they also might have new burrs with no screws soon, so I may wait till July/August. Earlier I was also thinking of getting MK Peak, but I single dose all the time...

Now, back to the machine, I spoke to Dave at La Marzocco, his advice was of great help. Terrific guy. GS3 seems to have almost all I actually looking for: being compact it fits my countertop, water reservoir (no plumbing), 120 V (no rewiring), great customer support. But in a few youtube videos it looks like people cannot really control the gauge pressure. As Assaf mentions somewhere here, the rotation of the paddle looks logarithmic, more control towards the end and not so much at the beginning. If the the radius of the handle would bigger, it might help.

Any comments about this? It looks like it is impossible to get repeatability, am I right? It is lacking an option to store/edit a profile and it is a drawback...

Thanks.

I have not used one, but my impression is that with the newest GS3 MP that has the gauge, you would quickly get a feeling for the paddle control and enjoy the infinite variability and also repeatability, albeit manual. Of the machines on your list, I think it is an excellent choice due to its size and no need for external plumbing.

I bought a Linea Mini recently. I certainly agree that the people at La Marzocco Home are extremely helpful and responsive, but I've heard great things about those other companies too.

Rocky

Beezer wrote: Of course, if you want to pull shots with certain types of tricky roasts or single origin beans, then pressure profiling can be the best way to do that.

Thanks. Yes, I do, this is the chief reason why I am interested in trying pressure profiling. To get all the aromas indicated on the labels of green beans that I often try to roast myself.

Brodie wrote:Is the Synesso really only 3" taller than the GS3?

During my research of the same two machines, I saw the GS3 listed with a height of 15" (for the MP), and the Synesso listed at 21".

No, it was a typo. I was wrong.