Hi. I would appreciate the advice of those of you who are so much more knowledgeable than me.

I want to get a high end prosumer (sp?) espresso machine for home use. I drink mostly espresso (sometimes a Yama vac pot of coffee). My wife drinks mostly lattes. I roast my own beans (Gene Cafe). I do not have a real espresso machine -- I use a Jura Capresso super automatic that was a father's day present. It has more sentimental value to me. But, it has started me on my espresso journey and it is time for me to upgrade.

I have an opportunity to acquire a "La Cimbali Junior S/1W" that is essentially new. It was the backup machine at a retail coffee house, only to be used in case the main machine went down, and also to take to trade shows. The coffee house went out of business some time ago, and this La Cimbali Junior has sat in the kitchen of the failed coffee house's owner, who says the machine has pulled maybe 100 shots total (again, it was a backup emergency machine).

I have read procedures with an hx machine to get to the proper temperature, and that doesn't faze me - I can follow those directions.

Most reviews I've read have been for the more common La Cimbali Junior D/1 (rotary pump) rather than the S/1 (vibratory pump). Do any of you have the S/1 - and do you have any comments about it?

Would $1400 be a fair price for a used but supposedly almost new machine? (she also has a Cimbali Junior grinder for $400; it too is used but not as pristine as the espresso machine; the grinder has performed "750 grinds")

Any thoughts or comments or suggestions or things I should think about that anyone would have will be greatly appreciated.

SportyandMisty wrote:Hi. I would appreciate the advice of those of you who are so much more knowledgeable than me.

I want to get a high end prosumer (sp?) espresso machine for home use. I drink mostly espresso (sometimes a Yama vac pot of coffee). My wife drinks mostly lattes. I roast my own beans (Gene Cafe). I do not have a real espresso machine -- I use a Jura Capresso super automatic that was a father's day present. It has more sentimental value to me. But, it has started me on my espresso journey and it is time for me to upgrade.

I have an opportunity to acquire a "La Cimbali Junior S/1W" that is essentially new. It was the backup machine at a retail coffee house, only to be used in case the main machine went down, and also to take to trade shows. The coffee house went out of business some time ago, and this La Cimbali Junior has sat in the kitchen of the failed coffee house's owner, who says the machine has pulled maybe 100 shots total (again, it was a backup emergency machine).

I have read procedures with an hx machine to get to the proper temperature, and that doesn't faze me - I can follow those directions.

Most reviews I've read have been for the more common La Cimbali Junior D/1 (rotary pump) rather than the S/1 (vibratory pump). Do any of you have the S/1 - and do you have any comments about it?

Would $1400 be a fair price for a used but supposedly almost new machine? (she also has a Cimbali Junior grinder for $400; it too is used but not as pristine as the espresso machine; the grinder has performed "750 grinds")

Any thoughts or comments or suggestions or things I should think about that anyone would have will be greatly appreciated.

How old is this vibe pump driven (pourover) Cimbali Junior?

The newer ones have electronics inside which do not kill the deal but which in my view are less desirable. The older ones have a sight glass with a ball in it, plus manual boiler fill. The only reason why I'd say an older machine is more desirable is that it is simpler in design and since it won't have a rotary pump or be plumbed in, anyway, simplicity of design is a net benefit. But that is just my opinion.

A fair price would in my view be a good price compared to whatever it is you are buying compared to some sort of verifiable indication of the actual price paid by others for similar machines in a similar condition that have sold recently. The best indication of this would normally be recently "completed sales" on ebay. I doubt that there have been enough recent sales of what you are buying that you could make a case, either way. If the machine is truly virgin in condition then the price you quote sounds "good."

As regards the grinder, I think the price is mediocre. The Junior grinder is an "ok" grinder but nothing to write home about, perhaps slightly more desirable than a used Mazzer Mini. You can get one new for not much more than you have quoted. For a real upgrade, get one of Chris' Cimbali Max Hybrid grinders, which is in a whole different league. It will be worth the incremental cost. For a used Cimbali Junior grinder, I'd be very reluctant to pay much more than $300, and then only if it is in really good condition.

ken

Hello:

SportyandMisty wrote:I have an opportunity to acquire a "La Cimbali Junior S/1W" that is essentially new.

I recently acquired a 220v/1800W Cimbali D/1 with doser, vibe pump and autofill (with sight-glass) made in the year 2000, also in 'essentially new' condition and for what I originally thought was a reasonable price. Like you, not being sure as to what 'reasonable price' for one of these would be, I asked around and followed the sound advice given to me and now given to you by Ken:

Ken Fox wrote:... compared to some sort of verifiable indication of the actual price paid by others for similar machines in a similar condition that have sold recently.

The price asked for what turned out to be a Cimbali D/1 (advertised as a 'Junior', period) with a matching Cimbali Junior Max turned out to be not only very reasonable but also an uncanny stroke of luck, only comparable to finding a mint 67 Cremina at a garage sale for a nominal price (Yes, it has happened ... ).

To compare, here's a few links to recent examples from the web:

http://cgi.ebay.de/La-Cimbali-Espressom...0004r30092

http://cgi.ebay.de/La-Cimbali-Junior-Es...2305f0b1cf

http://cgi.ebay.de/La-Cimbali-M21-junio...2a05a83925

I don't understand the language so you are on your own there, but I'm sure you'll manage to get an idea.

Ken Fox wrote:... newer ones have electronics inside ... ... are less desirable.
... simplicity of design is a net benefit.

FWIW, in my limited experience as a Cimbali user, I fully agree with Ken's view.
My D/1 is a rather strange sample in that is it plumb-in/out, has both autofill and sight-glass.
I have found this particular combination of features to be quite valuable.

Good luck with your purchase.

Cheers,

CIV

The problem with using ebay auctions for Cimbali Junior pricing in North America is that there haven't been very many sales the last few years. I think this is because the Junior never was all that popular for commercial use in the USA, and appears to have become even less popular in recent years. This is in contrast to Europe or even some parts of Canada, where one sees them fairly often.

It is still quite common to see Cimbali Juniors in Europe, which I think accounts for the fact that they sell often on ebay's European sites. The resale prices in Europe appear to be a lot lower than those I've seen in the USA. This is probably because there are more of the machines available for resale in Europe, plus fewer Europeans would consider having such a machine in their home kitchens due to lack of space, cost of electricity, or both. Another reason why a rare resale Junior might cost more in the US, is that many of those used machines never saw commercial service and were used in a low volume home environment. A used Junior in Europe has almost certainly been used commercially and may be in worse condition.

Finally, given the size of North America, one has to deal with shipping costs, and the efforts needed to package up a used machine. In Europe the distances are generally much shorter and it would be fairly likely that your buyer will drive over to physically pick up the machine, something that is unlikely to happen with an ebay sale in the USA.

ken