new poster here. i have a decision to make regarding whether to purchase the tank version of the cimbali junior (s1) or the plumbed-in version (dt1). i'm familiar with the differences (vibe vs rotary pump, pre-infusion vs none, etc).

i've read that pre-infusion helps a lot (the shot quality/ease of use) on the dt1. is it as important on the s1, seeing that it has a vibratory pump?

also, i'll be making approx 10 drinks a week. if i purchase the s1, do you think i'll be regretting not having the option to plumb in and drain?

i'm leaning towards purchasing the s1, as i feel my coffee consumption does not justify having a plumbed-in version, and i like the idea of being able to bring the machine with me for a long weekend away, although that's not a deal breaker. any suggestions/advice would be appreciated. the potential price difference between the 2 machines doesn't concern me, nor am i interested in advice on other machines at the moment. thanks in advance for your help!

Josh,

Welcome to HB!

A few points of clarification first. The DT1 "Casa" imported by Chris Coffee and distributed by a few places is the only Junior with the pre-infusion. My DT1 was the standard version and did not have it. I'm pointing this out so that you do not blindly assume that all DT1s will come with it.

Trust me when I say the last thing you will do is load this machine up and take it with you anywhere. It's very big and very heavy. While the idea of taking it with you seems appealing, the actual act of doing so will clear you of this "capability" quickly.

As to S1/DT1...if at all possible, get the DT1 and plumb it in and out (drip tray is tiny). Unless you have very easy access to the reservoir, you will quickly grow tired of having to refill it.

This is a great machine, built like a tank and about as mobile as one too.

campari wrote: i'm leaning towards purchasing the s1, as i feel my coffee consumption does not justify having a plumbed-in version, and i like the idea of being able to bring the machine with me for a long weekend away, although that's not a deal breaker.

Wow! While the La Cimbali is a reasonably compact machine it's pretty darn heavy. Bet that even if you get the S1 you won't bother to take it for a long weekend away. I took my Rancilio Silvia with me once for a weekend trip and never bothered again. So I wouldn't let that be a factor in your decision.

uscfroadie wrote:Josh,

Welcome to HB!

A few points of clarification first. The DT1 "Casa" imported by Chris Coffee and distributed by a few places is the only Junior with the pre-infusion. My DT1 was the standard version and did not have it. I'm pointing this out so that you do not blindly assume that all DT1s will come with it.

Trust me when I say the last thing you will do is load this machine up and take it with you anywhere. It's very big and very heavy. While the idea of taking it with you seems appealing, the actual act of doing so will clear you of this "capability" quickly.

As to S1/DT1...if at all possible, get the DT1 and plumb it in and out (drip tray is tiny). Unless you have very easy access to the reservoir, you will quickly grow tired of having to refill the reservoir.

This is a great machine, built like a tank and about as mobile as one too.

thanks for the quick reply! yes, i'm aware that it's the 'casa' that has the pre-infusion... in fact chris coffee is who i would probably purchase the plumbed-in version from. i should have been a little more specific with the nomenclature

do you think your advice regarding getting tired of filling the reservoir applies in my situation - light home use?

keno wrote:Wow! While the La Cimbali is a reasonably compact machine it's pretty darn heavy. Bet that even if you get the S1 you won't bother to take it for a long weekend away. I took my Rancilio Silvia with me once for a weekend trip and never bothered again. So I wouldn't let that be a factor in your decision.

thank you.

Plumbing-in Is a Huge Advantage:
Whether or not you actually do it, a reservoir machine should be emptied and refilled daily, and the reservoir itself frequently washed with soap. If you do it, it's a nuisance. And if you don't, it's not hygienic.

If you ordered a glass of water at a restaurant, would you want them to ladle it from a container which had been sitting around, unrefrigerated, loosely covered for more than a few hours? How about for coffee? Fresh, filtered water, or day-old from a loosely covered jug filled from the same source? It's about freshness, too.

A plumbed machine encourages you to use a LOT of water for all sorts of things which are better for it, including:

• Temping the group after an idle;
• Rinsing baskets;
• Renewing the water in the boiler to keep steam and "tap" water fresh; even
• "Sinking" marginal shots;
• Etc.

I can't say for sure that it will do the same for you, but the invitation to use water freely made me a much better barista.

Plumbing the drip tray is almost as nice in the sense of stink aromatic freshness. A plumbed tray doesn't stink smell, and let's your olfactory sense focus on what's going on with the coffee you're making instead of the espresso you made. It's such a good thing, that removing the drip tray to wash it with soap and water is not -- relatively speaking -- an inconvenience.

On the Negative Side:
You absolutely, positively must control water hardness (and of course water quality in general). Under the best of circumstances, even compared to descaling a reservoir or convertible machine, descaling a plumbed in machine is a monster PITA. You won't want to do it more than once every other year.

Full Disclosure:
I've been using one of the first Casas made, for more than three years. No HX (probably not anything at all) makes coffee better. I'm extremely happy with the Casa, wouldn't trade it for anything less than a Slayer, and then only for the prestige.

Rich

I just made a similar choice except I was looking at the Vivaldi S1 or Mini version. I went with the mini tank version because of very hard water and I am using bottled instead. I LOVE my mini, but, I would prefer a plumbed in version. I am thinking about ordering the drain kit for it but since I have to take the drain tray off daily to clean and refill the tank I'm not sure how well that will work.

If you have the means I would recommend a plumbed version.

campari wrote:thanks for the quick reply! yes, i'm aware that it's the 'casa' that has the pre-infusion... in fact chris coffee is who i would probably purchase the plumbed-in version from. i should have been a little more specific with the nomenclature

do you think your advice regarding getting tired of filling the reservoir applies in my situation - light home use?

Josh,

I second what Rich (boar_d_laze) said in his post. Having a machine plumbed in is a HUGE advantage. The only people who would say otherwise are those that have never had one plumbed in. It's very hard to go back to filling reservoirs. Same holds true for plumbing out. Dumping drip trays stinks, literally and figuratively.

You will go through a lot of water, which as Rich stated, is not a bad thing. Rich, please correct any figures you fill are incorrect as it's been well over a year since I used mine. If I recall correctly, you will flush about 5 ounces of water after letting the machine idle, so if you aren't pulling back to back shots and have 5-10 minutes in-between and you drink say 3 drinks a day, you will use well over 20 ounces of water a day, and that doesn't include water you will use to flush after the shot to clean your grouphead screen, portafilter/basket etc. Basically, you can expect to fill your boiler every two - three days.

The decision is really easy...if you can plumb in, get the DT1 Casa and don't look back.

Cheers!

thanks all for the replies.

while i was leaning towards the tank model, it looks like the plumbed-in version is the way to go.

i'll have to give chris coffee a call...

uscfroadie wrote:Rich, please correct any figures ...

It's not a matter of correction so much as understanding and doing things slightly differently. I flush for two reasons, to stabilize the group and to temp the brew water. The first requires a long flush. FWIW, I use 6oz, but 5oz would probably work just as well) at the beginning of every session; and after about an hour of idle. After the long flush, I allow the machine to recover for a couple of minutes before pulling a temping flush. Dan talked about that in his review of the Junior.

Temping is a much shorter flush. It's volume/time itself depend on how long the machine has idled. I don't use a stop watch to time it, but an internal count so my figures are a little rough; the generic golden temp of 201F is four or five seconds after flash boiling has ended.

Our use is a little heavier than yours, at least 5 doubles a day, but if you scale them, your numbers for everything else work for me.

Our water supply comes from the California Water Project, is very hard, and filled with particulates. We go through a set of generic 350gal filters annually, and a 750gal (medium) Claris filter every two years.

Finally, when you call Chris to talk about the M21, ask for Mary.

Rich