Hello

New to the forum, and the art. I could use your input.

Anyway, I have decided on a semi-automatic type espresso machine. My family and I are primarily milk based coffee drinkers ( we are partial to a French Roast type roast). That is not to say I am not personally interested in learning the art of pulling straight shots, and something I will eventually aspire to do.

I originally narrowed my selection to a Izzo Duetto 3 DB, then I came across the la Cimbali Junior DT1 HX on the Chris Coffee website.

So I am torn. I have read numerous post on the differences in each (DB vs HX), and how much more forgiving the DB is when it comes to water temperature control.

But the build quality of the La Cimbali is so robust the way I see it I'll get another 10 to 15 years of use out of the machine and be an expert by that time.

So folks, any input and lessons learned would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Mike

Folks

For the La Cimbali Junior DT1, does anyone know what size group head (58 mm?)....cannot seem to find the info listed on the mfg web site, or anywhere else for that matter.

Thanks

Mike

Mike,

The portafilter on the Cimbali is 58mm. I personally would say the DT1 all the way. The machine is more of a professional machine than the Alex Duetto. Are you comfortable with a heat exchanger machine? Once you get the flush routine down it's simple. The alex seems to have all of the bells and whistles but it is crammed into a small frame. You will sacrifice boiler size since the alex has two boilers. You really don't need two boilers on a single group machine.

I'm an HX guy and wouldn't trade my Elektra T1 (much more like the Cimbali than the Duetto) for a DB, but there are certainly many people in each camp. In any event, there is lots of good reading on both of these machines here on HB. Check here...

/junior-buyers-guide.html

and here...

/izzo-alex- ... eview.html

for nice write ups on each

UFGators wrote:Mike,

I personally would say the DT1 all the way. The machine is more of a professional machine than the Alex Duetto.

+1

+ Infinity.

The M21 Junior DT/1 Casa has a couple of small improvements compared to the non-Casa, which Dan reviewed, in the form of an easier to handle steam tip, and a two-needle gauge.

However, La Cimbali (and Chris) also added pre-infusion, and that's a MAJOR improvement. It makes the Casa very forgiving in terms of distribution; more forgiving of minor distribution flaws, than, for instance, a typical E-61.

When it comes to temping, the most difficult part to learn is dialing-in, which is far more palate than machine driven. HXs are a little quicker to dial in. Once dialed in, DBs don't require as much attention to reproduce the correct temp as HXs. But if you can dial in an HX, you can temp it on a shot to shot basis without much effort; and the La Cimbali is especially easy in that regard. And so it goes with reciprocal, pluses and minuses down the long ladder which is temping.

In any case, the M21 group is so stable that for a few minutes after temping the machine might as well be a DB.

You don't find many people who've left a true commercial HX like an M21 or T1 for a prosumer DB and been happy with the change. But not only are you certainly free to ask, perhaps my comment will draw some counter examples.

When it comes down to it, a good HX is as easy to live with as a good DB; the Casa is as good as a 1 group HX gets; and if you want a DB in the same class of build quality, ergonomics, ease of use, touch and versatility you're starting with the GS/3.

Rich

Completely agree with Rich. I'm coming at it from the opposite perspective, so it might help you cement your decision. I went back and forth for a few months with your same exact decision before pulling the trigger on the Duetto II. It wasn't long before I realized that I'd probably be happier in the long run with the more robust Casa DT1.

Temp stability (intra-shot) is important, but I'd rather be able to fly between temps quicker like the DT1 will allow, over the slower changing Duetto II. If I were to want to bang out shot after shot of the exact same espresso day after day, then a DB PID makes more sense. It's easier to dial in to one specific coffee and stay there.

I parted ways with no regrets whatsoever with the Duetto II, part out of fear that as a high end of the prosumer market, future repairs would be difficult and expensive after nearly 2 years of ownership. And part out of knowing the Strega was likely (later proven) to give me much better espresso.

Casa Jr DT1 way over Duetto III any day in my opinion.

Take a slight detour and look at the Nuova Simonelli Appia semi-automatic from Chris' Coffee.

boar_d_laze wrote:When it comes down to it, a good HX is as easy to live with as a good DB; the Casa is as good as a 1 group HX gets; and if you want a DB in the same class of build quality, ergonomics, ease of use, touch and versatility you're starting with the GS/3.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record and possibly bringing some anger upon myself, I wouldn't consider the GS/3 to be of the same robust build as the Junior. I still have an older D1, and it's straight up commercial build relates it more to a 1 group Linea than the GS/3 I used to own. These are work horse machine that can take a serious beating in just about every respect. The GS/3 is something totally different, in a way that I happen to find less appealing.

What you should choose, really depends on if you see yourself pulling the same espresso every day or pulling multiple SO a day.

If you just stick to the same Espresso and only use it in milk based drinks, Then a commercial HX is a massive overkill, these machine mostly shine, if you use allot Of different SO a day, and if you pull successive shots, the first 1-3 shots on these commercial rated machine are basically sink shots. But yes they will last longer and Can handle more abuse Then a standard E-61 DBPID

I actually went from a Dual Boiler to a commercial Hx (Elektra T1) and back, but I only did this because I needed the space and money to fund better equipment for Filter coffee, For me it didn't make sense to keep a Hx monster with my limited consumption Of espresso.

But let's make it clear the Quality Of the shots is not the same, but that was a sacrifice I where willingly to take to get better filter Coffee.

But should I upgrade ever again I would for sure get one Of the Prosumer Levers. Especially after Izzo has introduced the Alex Lever to the market. It's the first downsized commercial lever, the other Levers on the market are basically standard prosumer machines with small boilers.

But don't forget to get a High quality grinder, the grinder is more important Then the machine. And it makes Little sense to get a Duetto or Cimbali if you just pair it with a Vario, Then it would Be better to get a cheaper machine and a Compak k10