Keep Breville Barista Express or upgrade? Budget under $2000

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
martinngyh
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#1: Post by martinngyh »

Hi All,

I am new here. Last year in June, I have upgraded from a Mr Coffee espresso machine I bought from Target to a Breville Barista Express (BES870XL). My choice reason was that I was still new to espresso making even though I have been using the Mr Coffee quite some time.

After the upgrade, I have taken a barista one day workshop to learn about espresso drink making, and have been practicing since. My skills has become pretty good, and I was quite happy with my purchase, even though I have noticed that my grinder is always set to the finest even using very fresh beans from Counter Culture.

Interestingly, I have asked the Breville service for a fix on a small thing. The person I dealt with has graciously determined that the machine was not functioning properly and offered an exchange for free even my machine is out of warranty (not by a lot of time).

Now, because I will have a brand new machine. I am tempted to upgrade my coffee gears by trading in this brand new machine. I am thinking about getting the new Breville Dual Boiler (BES920XL) and a Baratza Vario grinder (or a rumored flagship Breville grinder if it is out in time). Should I do this, or use the new machine until it dies. I am prepare to spend some money, but want to keep everything under $2000.

Any suggestion on whether to upgrade or not, or which gears to get, would be greatly appreciated.

Martin Ng

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TomC
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#2: Post by TomC »

I would wait and levy whatever you can towards the BDB and Vario. Both are quite capable in the entry level market of espresso gear that can make a quality beverage and not be put up in a cabinet to collect dust after the first month of use.
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#3: Post by EspressoForge »

Do you have the ability to trade it in for something other than the BDB? Would the cost of the BDB be included in the $2000 upgrade or are you getting some sort of discount?

Just wanting to know how much of a budget to work with here. Either way, I would advise getting rid of the Breville Barista Express, it looks like an integrated automatic machine and I don't think you'll ever get decent coffee out of it.

Do you drink more milk based drinks? Or mostly espresso/Americanos?

martinngyh (original poster)
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#4: Post by martinngyh (original poster) »

The $2000 budget in my mind will cover the espresso machine and the grinder. Therefore, whatever I get from selling the Barista Express will go towards that $2000. I do not think I can get any discount fro the BDB. I am crossing my fingers for getting rid of the 870XL. :mrgreen:

When I make espresso from my 870XL, I usually make cappuccino from it, since I notice straight shots from it are not as good. I rarely do americano. So I mostly do drink milk based drinks. If I do non-milk based drinks, I usually do a pour over.

Thanks,
Martin

rittem1
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#5: Post by rittem1 »

There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on this site and they will mostly give you great brand and model recommendations. What you need to decide is what is important to you when it comes to your coffee experience. If you haven't already you should definitely watch Dan's videos which are easily found on the site. Beyond that you will want to decide how much input you want into the experience. Do you want to go lever or semi auto? How much use will your machine get?

It sounds like with your trade-in situation you are pretty well set on Breville? Unless of course you sell your current machine on CL and start new. That would greatly open up your possibilities!

I am still in the machine decision process myself having already purchased an OE Pharos. I've pretty much decided on a lever...Bezzera, Cremina, Mcal...watch videos on YouTube, search topics here, and enjoy the process.
LMWDP #517

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boar_d_laze
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#6: Post by boar_d_laze »

The Breville BES920XL (BDB) is vastly superior to the Breville Express in the cup, steaming, and in terms of ease of use. The preinfusion design is innovative and excellent; the best reservoir-fed preinfusion cheaper than the GS/3's -- much better than an E-61's running off a reservoir. Steaming is improved compared to the previous BDB 900 -- but still only adequate. The frame is plastic, the enclosure is plastic with a very thin metal skin, no plastic in the "moving parts," though. Component quality is very good, assembly is done in a large, Asian facility.

The big improvements to the current BDB 920 relative to the 900 were in steaming and user serviceability. The 920s can be user descaled, which should add significantly to longevity and/or decrease the cost of maintenance. No one really knows how long they'll last.

Plasticky build and steaming aside, it's as good a reservoir machine as you can get for under $3K.

The Vario is a good grinder, which is also extremely user friendly and out performs its price in the cup. Like the Breville it's plasticky; but unlike the Breville has known issues because of it -- particularly burr slippage and inconsistent grind settings, which seem to be more a matter of when than if.

Both Baratza and Breville have generous warranties and excellent post-sales support. Neither the BDB nor the Vario have the solidity or counter presence of more expensive, metal-bodied machines assembled in Europe.

Breville's tech support under warranty for anything which isn't immediately fixable is to simply replace the offending machine, bearing shipping costs themselves. Baratza will replace for any major problem, but takes a more DIY approach for anything which is user fixable. They have excellent, step by step videos for solving every conceivable problem online, excellent parts availability, and excellent (sensing a theme?) one on one email and phone support.

If the BDB + Vario is the setup you want, think about buying the BDB from Bed Bath and Beyond, or Sur La Table because those retailers have excellent post-warranty support; and consider buying the grinder directly from Baratza as a "refurb," because refurbs are disassembled, completely inspected, and reassembled with new parts as needed by techs in the US; are cheaper than new; and have the "new" warranty.

Unless you're saving for something in particular with "last a lifetime" build quality, you should upgrade to the BDB + Vario as soon as possible. Great coffee, great price.

The BDB is $1300. Baratza Vario refurb is $360. Baratza "Metal Portaholder" is $45 (a necessity, which is included with new Varios but not the refurbs). $1705 is less than $2000. What are you waiting for?

Rich
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martinngyh (original poster)
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#7: Post by martinngyh (original poster) »

@ Eric, I am used to semi-automatics with programmability. That is why I look at Breville again. I asked Breville and around, and no one offers a trade-in program. So most likely I will need to sell it on Craiglist, Amazon or eBay. For newbies out there, do not follow my footsteps (going cheap on your first gear, which I may be doing again for my second). Your skills may outpace your machine soon, and you may be stuck with inferior machines for awhile.

@ Rich, thanks for the advice, even with suggested stores. Buying a refurbished grinder is a really good suggestion. Everything is under my budget. :D

Martin

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HB
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#8: Post by HB »

For those following this thread, you may want to refer to the OP's similar question on CoffeeGeek here to avoid needlessly repeating suggestions others have already offered. Martin, for future reference, please read Why is cross-posting strongly discouraged? Thanks.
Dan Kehn

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#9: Post by EspressoForge »

Although the BDB will likely fit your needs, in light of your mention that you mostly make milk drinks, I would probably look towards a good HX machine with a large boiler. The double boiler won't steam as well unless the steam boiler is quite large (in this case it looks like it's a bit under-sized). While the BDB makes a good shot and likely will steam OK for you, if I were steaming a lot, I'd want a machine that could really do it well and fast. I also like the Italian style machines that hold a lot more value than the plastic consumer machines. I'm not saying the BDB is a throw-away machine, I just don't know about it. On the other hand, I bought a used Bezzera BZ07 for $1k USD and sold it for the same price 2 years later...I was out shipping only. If I could have sold it locally would have been an even trade.

I've had a great experience with Bezzera, and would highly recommend their machines. But to be honest, there's a lot of competition and great machines in the prosumer HX market.

As to a grinder, assuming you're spending $1k-1300 on a machine, that leaves you 700-1000 left to spend on the grinder. This is a decent budget and should be able to get you the Vario's bigger commercial brother the Forte. Although practically it might not seem like much of a difference, I'd say the extra money is worth it to not have to deal with the plastic issues that the Vario may have. I had a Vario for a while and did have burr slippage issues, but some of that may be due to what kind of coffee you use and other factors.

Besides the Forte, you may be able to score a used conical, or think about the HG-One hand-grinder.