Hi All,

I'm looking to upgrade from my Mazzer Mini (non-E) as I'm tired of the crazy OCD dance I do when grinding. It's got to the point where my grinding is the longest part of espresso production, by a LONG way.

History: I started with a Rocky/Silvia combination, then picked the MM up second hand to go with the Silvia. Subsequently I purchased the BDB. I've found the combination to be reasonable but the law of diminishing returns has me fighting to get past "reasonable". I keep a log of every shot I pull. I have pre-ground bean weight, post ground, temperature, grind setting, pre-infusion, pull and shot weight. I also record a subjective rating as well as notes where required. I weigh pre grinding because I want to avoid waste for the most part. I generally buy 12-14oz of beans and really don't like to waste them as it gets expensive. Between bags I vacuum the grinder out so that it's clean and every month or two I remove the burrs and clean it more thoroughly.

I make at least two shots per day and sometimes up to 5 or 6. I grind the beans and then obsessively clean the grinding until I'm generally within .1g of the beans in weight. If I'm off by .2 I get annoyed (obsessive much?). What this means is that my grinding should be very consistent but it also means that my grinder is very clean. I've got the the point where I'd like to take away some of this crazy grinder dance and have decided to upgrade to a doserless grinder.

The shortlist is K30 Vario, K8 Fresh or Pro-M Espresso. I have found them online for approximately the same price (give or take $200) and am about ready to pull the trigger. I'm not particularly fond of the obsessiveness of my grinding routine but I don't want to waste beans. Here are my concerns:

K30: Access to burrs / waste in chamber / most expensive / no manual mode
K8: H U G E
Pro-M E: Mixed reviews / access to burrs / worth saving a couple hundred dollars over the others?
General: What else is out there? Adjustment to timed grinding as opposed to weighed single shots

I've done a lot of reading on each of these and the K10 (which is too expensive and the WBC is dosed so not really interested). I'm looking for stepless adjustment and consistency. Speed is not a huge factor but I'd also like to not ever want another grinder!

My impressions from reading about the K30 Vario & Pro-M is that the Vario is much better (there's a surprise) but the price difference is about $300 so is it worth that? I haven't found a whole lot about the K8 Fresh as it seems most people go for the K10 but I'd be particularly interested in whether the K8's ridiculous size was worth it over the K30. I'm not sure I have a good enough palate to discern between each of them but will the 83mm flat burrs of the K8 make any real difference as that seems to be a pro?

Anyway, thanks in advance for your comments.

Dan

I don't know if the K30 is *much* better than the Pro-M. They both have 65mm disks. The K30 might run a bit cooler, I think. I don't have any experience with it, but I love my Pro-M (now that it's fixed). No WDT and no distribution issues. Grind and tamp. Love it.

Also, it has a very small footprint. My counter space is limited so the Pro-M was the *most* grinder I could get that fit. If I were to upgrade, I'd go to the K10 Fresh just because I'd like to try a conical grinder. (Remember that the K8 is 83mm flat burrs and the K10 has 68mm conical.) I'd have to swap espresso machines to something less wide than my Mini Vivaldi, though, to make it fit.

I'm certainly keen to avoid doing WDT, I guess any one of these would save me that trouble.

Curious to know if anyone has had a chance to compare the K30 with the K8, seems a bit more like a apples to apples comparison.

If your concern is waste and consistency, and you want to see make an upgrade, then you might as well go for a big conical like the K10 Doser/Fresh or something that's going to give you a high level of consistency. You don't want to have to "dial" in every single time you step up to the grinder. Yes, it's going to cost you more money up front, but if your spending $15/lb let's say, for good fresh roasted beans, then what's the value when you get a high percentage of great shots out of all your pulls? Plus, you won't have to adjust your grind settings every single day and can make tweaks to dose to get similar shots.

Thanks for your response.

I was under the impression that, while the serious conicals were more consistent and more forgiving, the higher end and larger flat burrs were almost as good. Would you say that's not the case? I guess that's one of the factors in favor for the K8 in that its 83mm burrs and otherwise same (ish?) construction as the K10 should make it almost as consistent. We're talking $400/500 difference which isn't exactly trivial. Aside from that the K8/K10 are really, really huge.

I guess I was hoping to get some advice from people like yourself on the relative differences to help me decide on a grinder that I'm not going to want to replace. I'd also read that the conicals have a lot of waste in the grind path so, as someone who has mostly single shot ground, I was concerned that the K10 (et. al.) would present more of an issue.

My plan with the timed grinders (all of the above) was to dial in how long it took to grind the weight I was looking for in a single dose, set that time and then fill the hopper.

Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, thanks again for your suggestion, I can't say I've completely dismissed the K10 Fresh, just seems like a bit of a step too far.

If space isn't an issue I think you should choose a Titan like the K30, K8, K10, Super Jolly (but perhaps a used one if money is a more important factor than space). The machines built for cafes have to be more reliable in the long run than ones built for home. They are designed to take abuse and are likely last a lifetime if used at home. So from an economics perspective, I think the new K30 is a bargain compared to the new Pro-M. I also liked it much better as a grinder, but I have not used the most recent iteration of the Pro-M.

As for connical vs flat, I like the flat profile at least as much, but dialing in a coffee on my K10 (connical) is so much easier than on my Super Jolly (flat). Once dialed in I'd be hard pressed to pick a favorite, and might well pick the flat burrs but since I like to switch coffee often I find the K10 is indeed preferable. It just isn't as picky about the little things.

I have never had a K30 at home, but love it in coffee shops, where I've gotten to play around with them. That said it is already dialed in there or at least close so I don't know if it is more like the SJ or the K10 in terms of being picky. I assume the flat burrs make it more like the SJ, but that is just an assumption, not something I know for sure.

Also in the K30's favor is that if you don't mind keeping beans in the hopper, it has a great user interface from my perspective.

Hi Daniel. If I were in your position I would be on the HG1 preorder list. It has its drawbacks (handgrinder, new unit from a new company, not actually available yet, etc...) but it does provide solutions to a lot of your current concerns. You should read up on it and see if you think it would work for you, as you would get almost 0 waste, big conical burrs, and it's on the low side of your budget.

Thanks guys.

I forgot to mention, while I have loads of energy for some things, I'm not sure hand grinding is one of them. I'll check out the HG1 though, thank you. With some things, I can be a bit lazy.

I'm probably leaning towards the K8 Fresh or K30 Vario. Just have to decide between the two unless the HG1 really grabs me.

Sorry to pester people but has anyone had the chance to directly compare the K30 with the K8 Fresh?

I got the K8 Fresh just before losing power for the past week thanks to Sandy. With a short hopper it's 20" high - still huge but a lot better than the 25" height with the regular hopper. It's not that much taller than my Mazzer Mini-e but the footprint is substantial.