Hi.

Have been browsing the site for a few months but finally got around to register, so this is my first post

I have been looking for a double boiler machine and narrowed it down to either a Alex Duetto II or a Brewtus IV (vibe pump).
My question will of course be, which one is better? I know the Alex probably is better with the rotary pump and higher quality parts, but is it worth it?
On a normal day i drink about 2-3 espresso and 1 cappu for my girlfriend so the steaming is not that important, all that matters is the taste in the espresso. Will i taste a difference from the alex compared to the brewtus? If that is the case, what was the main cause in the improvement, is the rotary pump better than the vibration one on the brewtus? The E-61 vibration pump have long pre-infusion and the rotary have a short one, will there be a improvement in the cup from one of them?

The reason im asking this is because the Alex is 600 Euro more than the brewtus, and for the 600 euro i might be saving i can upgrade my super jolly to a Compak K10 alot sooner than i thought. Or will it be wise to buy the Alex and wait a bit longer for the grinder upgrade?

I know i asked the same question like 5 times in a row, too much caffeine

There will probably be a taste difference, but it will vary by coffee making it very difficult to say which is 'better'.

Will you plumb in the rotary?

What machine do you currently own?

I will not plumb it in, i just sold my Silvia v3 with PID, used it for about a year.

Buy the machine you want to look at for several years

haglund89 wrote:My question will of course be, which one is better?

They're both E61 groups, so it's a safe bet they'll produce similar espressos. While there technically is a measurable difference in the pressure profile of an E61 with rotary pump versus a vibratory pump, I don't think it's significant enough to produce a difference in taste (for more details, see Pressure profiles, preinfusion and the forgiveness factor). I haven't used the Alex Duetto and the last Expobar Brewtus model I used was the "III", so I cannot comment on them from direct experience. Reading over the specifications, the Brewtus IV and Duetto sound remarkably similar.

To answer Erics question about how good i am at electrical "stuff" i guess im alright with a decent description.
I kinda want a real pid like on the brewtus and alex as i often switch blends and want to dial it in with ease. I have heard that a hx machine produces a more complex and "better" espresso, is this true or is it just a matter of taste which one is better (like every machine in this price range)

Dan, the Brewtus IV is the same as the III, just a makeup and now able to switch off the steam boiler. I have read the buyers guide to Brewtus III and noticed espresso performance scored 9.0. To compare it with other machines in this price range including La Spaziale Vivaldi II that scored 8.5, does this mean the brewtus create a better espresso or is it just easier to pull a "not sink shot" on the brewtus? And how will the Brewtus (e-61) machine compare to Silvia in the espresso cup, is it that much better other than more forgiving?

haglund89 wrote:To compare it with other machines in this price range including La Spaziale Vivaldi II that scored 8.5, does this mean the brewtus create a better espresso or is it just easier to pull a "not sink shot" on the brewtus?

Yes, the 0.5 point difference was recognition of the E61's forgiveness factor.

haglund89 wrote:And how will the Brewtus (e-61) machine compare to Silvia in the espresso cup, is it that much better other than more forgiving?

Randy summarized it nicely in Rancilio Silvia with PID vs. competition on shot quality:

Randy G. wrote:A well-designed HX machine with an E-61 brewhead can beat the panties off Silvia, all other things being equal. I can only speak from my personal experience, but the espresso from my E-61 machine is so mush more consistent and better tasting that what Silvia produced, that after 6½ of owning Silvia (much of which was PID'd) I have actually increased my coffee consumption (a bit).

haglund89 wrote:To answer Erics question about how good i am at electrical "stuff" i guess im alright with a decent description.
I kinda want a real pid like on the brewtus and alex as i often switch blends and want to dial it in with ease. I have heard that a hx machine produces a more complex and "better" espresso, is this true or is it just a matter of taste which one is better (like every machine in this price range)

First, be aware that an exposed group machine like an e61 is very susceptible to ambient conditions. Although the PID may read a constant temperature, group temperature will vary with the slightest breeze. With fan only, heat or cooling, the group drops about 1-3°F versus still air. The temperature profile change is more noticeable with some coffees than others.

For maximum control, PID an HX to create almost any temperature profile desired.

When ground, Amora Gayo smells like blueberry jam. In the cup, there's a dusty taste that no standard temperature adjustment will eradicate. On the HX [See HX Heaven or 1½ Boiler], I was able to remove the dustiness by flipping on the steam boiler as I ground the shot. This gives a rising temperature profile similar to an Elektra A3 that completely removes the 'dustiness' No can do on the DB

Hm okey, but what about machines like the GS/3 and Linea, are they not suppose to have flat temp profile and are priced so high because of this temp stability?

Ok so you recommend a HX machine for total control, there is a Izzo Alex with a pid, is that the better choice for me?

*edit* found the answer to my question, there is no correct answer Expected differences between dual boiler and HX?