Hi all!

I'm currently looking at purchasing either an Isomac Tea II or a Vibiemme Double Domobar (manual) but just can't decide. I'm looking to make this purchase without regret of not buying the other, and don't want to find myself upgrading a year or so later - therefore I'd rather spend the bucks now.

Just when I was going to pull the trigger on the Vibiemme, 1st Line came out with a sale on their Isomac Tea II's which just made this decision a little harder!

Anyone who has owned or used either (or both!) and could provide some input on shot quality, etc would be much appreciated. I've heard they're pretty comparable - can anyone comment on this?

I mainly drink espressos and so also on that note, how important is having the PID really?

Thanks in advance for your help.

It's kind of strange no one replied to your post.

That being said there are a lot of different points in your post so I'll cover the basics. Isomac is coming back into the picture as of late and I don't know how many people have used a Tea II. That being said I believe it is probably a great machine it looks like a pretty standard E61 HX machine.

The Vibiemme you are talking about though isn't really in the same league as it is a double boiler and rotary pump which almost everyone will agree are better/expensive options.

Sorry I don't have more time to write anything in detail I have to run off to work but I thought I would post something quick and that way at least you would get a bump.

ideveloper wrote:
....how important is having the PID really?

This is really a question that only you can answer. How important is it to you?

Let me explain. There's a vast amount of information on this site regarding how to manage temperature on HX machines and on single/dual boiler machines that don't have PID. To paraphrase Dan's great article on the subject of HX temperature management, many home baristas can learn to stop worrying and love heat exchangers.

In my case, I never could. I could use my HX machine and get great results, but I never really liked it. I never could stop worrying about whether I was doing it right.

I moved to a PID double boiler machine last month and am in love with it. It removed an aspect of espresso production that I personally did not enjoy, and my espresso routine is better for it.

So this is all just preference and taste. I doubt the quality of the espresso, properly prepared, is going to differ that much between the two machines you mention. The question is what do you enjoy about espresso production & what do you think will bother you?

Bex wrote:This is really a question that only you can answer. How important is it to you?

To the OP:

The choice between getting an Isomac Tea II and a Vibiemme Double Domobar is UP TO YOU . . . there is no right or wrong answer, no "one-size-fits-all" response. If there were, then only one of these machines (and/or companies) would exist, the other having gone out of business due to having the wrong answer . . .

Simply put, either one of these machines is capable of providing you with excellent quality in the cup provided that a) you know what you're doing, and b) you have an suitable grinder up to the task at hand. What that means is simply this: if you're the type who, metaphorically speaking, looks over your shoulder all the time, you'll have questions and doubts and wonders about any machine you didn't buy. But since both of these machines are more than capable . . . .

You wrote that

ideveloper wrote:I mainly drink espressos

and on that note, I fail to see why you would need a double boiler . . .

But since there is no right/wrong answer, Adrian, the REAL question becomes "What are you using for a grinder???"

Cheers,
Jason

zin1953 wrote:I fail to see why you would need a double boiler . . .

...or for that matter an HX. Why not a single boiler like the Alexia? All the temp stability of a DB, no temp surfing, and half the price.

zod27 wrote:It's kind of strange no one replied to your post.

Probably because this is a variant of the "HX vs. double boiler" debate that gets beaten to death every few months. For the latest round, see Why not double boiler with PID? The main points of the debate are especially apt in this case because the two contenders have E61 groups.

Good point, it is the most commonly debated topic on the forums.

I like my Tea II, but I would suggest you to choose whichever machine you want and get as good grinder as possible. Great grinder makes the difference of an epic proportions.

I'd venture to say the Vibiemme is a nicer machine.
It's apparent in the thickness of the metals, and the tolerances of how they fit together.

You'll spend more on the Vibiemme, and rightfully so.
However, check out 1st-line's facebook- they have a brand new double boiler PID that is heavily discounted because of a TINY scratch.

Hi ideveloper,

You may have already made your decision, but I'd like to chime in since I was in a similar situation earlier this month (March). I had a 'simple' automatic espresso maker (single boiler, water reservoir, buttons to go from brew temp to steam temp). Not a 'low end' machine, but definitely a base machine none-the-less. Made it last for almost 10 years. Then the machine died...

So I went through all the forums reading everything I could. Was 'wooed' by the many Silvia posts. Had my eyes on an Isomac Venus. Was confused by a machine called 'Tea' (thought it was made for tea brewing at first, but found out it was someone's name [pronounced 'Tayah'] ). Saw so many HX machines I didn't even realize there were any pro-sumer double boiler machines, until I saw the Vibiemme machines.

I have never used any Isomac machine, let alone a Tea II. But, from what I've seen, it's a very capable HX machine with a lot of good features. If I were to going to choose between a Tea II and a Vibiemme Domobar Super HX machine, both as a manual (lever operated brew) machine, it'd be hard to decide (as you well know). I've heard that the Vibiemme is a heavier machine, with lots of steaming power. So that would push me in the direction of the Vibiemme... unless the price difference was persuading me otherwise.

But this is thread is about "Isomac Tea II vs Vibiemme Double Domobar", so I'm assuming you are considering a double-boiler machine and how it must differ from the single+HX machine. Well, now that I've had experience with machines of both types I'd have to say the following:

An HX machine will have an edge over a double boiler machine 'if' the second 'steaming' boiler (on the double boiler machine) runs out of steam too quickly. I have not had this issue with the Vibiemme Double Domobar, and can turn out plenty of froth.

A double boiler machine will have an edge over an HX machine with shorter flushing required (so you don't have to refill your water reservoir as often). But, all-in-all, you can make a great espresso with either machine.

I have the Vibiemme Double Domobar Electronic (programmable buttons, no lever). Makes it a little easier to 'walk away' from a brewing cycle and do other things, but it's a 'nice-to-have' feature, not a 'must have'. Mine also has the PID, and I have to say it's a real 'peace-of-mind' feature. I know what my brew boiler water temperature is, so I can be confident that my grouphead temperature will be fairly consistent.

[EDIT] I forgot to mention one of the most obvious plusses of a double boiler machine - you can turn off the steam boiler independent of the brew boiler. So, if you don't need froth (or hot water), i.e. you are making espresso only - you can leave the steam boiler off. This will save you wasted energy, and reduce the likelihood of the steam boiler going through a reheat cycle during a brew cycle (although, once you know your DB machine, a steam purge on the steam boiler, just before brewing, will avoid this condition).[END EDIT]

That said - no matter which machine you choose I highly recommend Eric's grouphead thermometer mod. With the thermometer in the grouphead you can see what the temperature of the water in the grouphead is doing. It really made it obvious to me when I had the right temperature water moving through the grind. Between that and the brew pressure gauge I've ben able to pull great espressos.

Good luck - whichever machine you decided on. You'll have delicious espresso no matter the choice !