I may have an opportunity to sell my Vario to a friend, and I'm trying to decide whether I will gain any benefit from upgrading? to a Compak K8 Fresh, Mahlkönig ProM, or a Mahlkönig K30 Vario.

My kitchen cabinets are approximately 17.5" from the counter, so my first issue is height: I'm not sure if the K8 or the K30 with the short hopper will even fit.

Of course, my second issue is with grind quality: will I taste any difference in the cup? I make 5-7 doubles a day, mostly straight espresso.

I've read all the ProM and K30 posts, but not many people have upgraded from a Vario, which is what I'm really interested in.

I think you will find that responses will depends what other drinks you make, because Vario and ProM probably give you more utility choices like mocca, or filter, but some other models you mention seems to be primarilly (professional bar?) espresso grinders.


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I should add that on this board are more qualified people to speak on this subject, than I am. This site also contains wealth of information on the subject, however it will require some homework to fish answers out.

If you haven't already done so, you might want to read:
Titan Grinder Project
Titan Grinder Project: Can it Beat the Mazzer Robur?

Jim Schulman blind tests put the Vario in the Titan league (Baratza Vario Grinder - Second Look):

another_jim wrote:Our plan was to do 4 pairs against the Compak, with 2 pairs of each coffee, and 8 pairs with the Mini, with 4 pairs for each coffee.

But the Vario spanked the Mini three times in a row on the Black Cat, and edged it three times in a row on the Bonko. The Vario tasted silky and buttery, while the Mini tasted angular and edgy. On one Bonko shot, we thought the edgy flavor on the Mini was slightly better, but the mouthfeel edge of the Vario was too much. That was on the final shot, and we knew by then which grinder was which.

So we promoted the Vario to the Titan league, and did six shots against the Compak. Here we had two slight slight wins by the Compak, two by the Vario and two ties. We never could tell which grinder was which. On this day, the Vario played in the Titan league and won.

It seems like this is another case for the law of diminishing returns...

I think that if you want to upgrade from a Vario (assuming you have an answer as to why you want to upgrade), you would need to move to a (large) commercial conical grinder to get an improvement in the cup (note: I have no particular expertise / knowledge on those). From what I've read, they all have their own compromises as they are definitely not tailored for home use (grind retention, (alleged) grind variation depending on a full hopper vs single dosing, very large, bulky, some requiring 220V, etc.). If you like the Vario (small, relatively fast, timed dosing, low grind retention, ability to change from press to espresso back and forth, etc.), you would lose at least part of that functionality by moving to a large conical, in exchange for a (slight?) edge in the cup. OTOH, from my readings, a large conical would also get you consistent grind, without always having to fiddle with the grind adjustment, allowing you to move between different coffees more seamlessly.

I can't comment on how much the taste varies from a Vario, as mine is not yet here, but you might want to read up on Owner experience with Pharos manual coffee grinder by Orphan Espresso for an option that is significantly more affordable than the "titan" grinders, and provides a bit of exercise as well...

Thanks for the responses so far.

Sakae wrote:I think you will find that responses will depends what other drinks you make, because Vario and ProM probably give you more utility choices like mocca, or filter, but some other models you mention seems to be primarilly (professional bar?) espresso grinders.

This grinder will exclusively be for espresso. I maintain 2 days worth of beans in my hopper. After using my Vario for about a year, I am not sure I could go back to a grinder with a doser.

I've just noticed this related thread: What's step up or two from Baratza Vario?, if you haven't already read it before creating this new thread.

avdiscolo wrote:Thanks for the responses so far.



This grinder will exclusively be for espresso. I maintain 2 days worth of beans in my hopper. After using my Vario for about a year, I am not sure I could go back to a grinder with a doser.

I do like my K30. Not everyone does however. It's just so simple and consistent. I use w/o a hopper filling it after two doubles. No popcorning issue used in this way.

After reading described personal experiences with various grinders, I am uncertain who can declare direct working knowledge with them all, but very few among us. I gather that delta in cup performance between Vario and next higher grade of grinders is probably very close and blurred for a neophyte like me.

Some like ProM, others waiting for new model to come up, and try to convince them otherwise. If I would be in your position, I would wait, learn some more, and try various model to gain first-hand feeling for those machines.

For me greatest (and rather shocking) surprise is a claim I read today on this forum (somewhere), that in a blind test Vario matched Compak grinder in the cup. I do not know the details, but wow! For several months I felt Compak was right up there competing with mighty Mazzers on almost equal footing, and maybe that's still true, but perhaps also Vario is not too bad machine after all.

Little search on this BB will lead you to expert evaluation of Vario grinder, and you may read, that it did performed pretty well. There is a common denominator I detect from many posts, and that is, there is no a perfect grinder on the market as yet, and each choice is a degree of compromise, as someone put it so aptly.

I upgraded from a Baratza Vario to a Compak K10 WBC. I've never looked back. While the BV may be a Titan or near-Titan grinder as far as taste is concerned, it isn't in terms of consistency. For that, the BV can't hold a candle to the K10. This has allowed me to dial in coffees faster and experiment with the extraction space knowing that the grind isn't varying at all shot to shot (I single dose, so no variation depending on how full the hopper happens to be.)

The grind setting consistency on the K10 is simply amazing. Unless there's a big change in humidity, I'm generally able to use the same grind setting, plus or minus one mark, for different batches of the same coffee, often even when they're purchased months apart. For many coffees, I can predict the change in flow time by the number of marks -- usually about 5 seconds per mark. That sure makes it easy to dial in. I could never do that with the BV.

Yeah, the standard K10 has a doser. It works quite well. I'm not wild about having to sweep it out after each session or when changing coffees, but it's not that big a deal. Sometimes I miss the simplicity and ease of the BV, but I definitely wouldn't go back to it for daily espresso (I use it for vac pot and press these days.)

All that said, the Baratza Vario is the best deal in espresso equipment. It's a great grinder for a very reasonable price. I would recommend it over any non-Titan grinder for beginners and those with budget constraints. The only place to go from the BV is up a lot in price.

The only thing holding me from going with the Compak K10 Pro Barista is the size. Our cabinets are a tad over 17.5" high and even with the short hopper the K10 is 19". In addition, the specs say the K10 is 14.5" deep (really?) and if it can't fit under the cabinets, I don't see how it will fit on the counter.

I've read that the throat of the K10 is pretty large, so running the grinder without a hopper may be a possibility. How much coffee can fit comfortably in the throat? Does anyone have any experience running a K10 in this manner?

In second place on my list is the Mahlkönig K30 Vario. I wouldn't expect a huge difference in the cup over my Baratza Vario, but it definitely fits under the cabinets, should be very durable, and the grind adjustments would be easier than the silly sliders on my Baratza Vario.