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Info overload: Need distilled advice on good espresso machine and grinder - Page 3

Postby HB on Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:02 am

onthego wrote:Actually the Quickmills don't have a frame. The stainless steel case itself is used as the structure that holds the machine together. I prefer machines that have a steel frame chassis and consider it to be preferable to one that does not.

Most "box" type single group espresso machines use the exterior case for structural support. Imagine an inverted T where the espresso machine's base is the T's horizontal line and the espresso machine's face is the T's vertical line. The face is supported in its vertical orientation by a wrap-around U-shaped casing; the ends of the U are bolted to the espresso machine's face and other bolts secure the bottom of the U to the base, forming a rigid box structure.

Rocket is a spinoff of ECM consumer products like the Giotto. Unless they've radically changed the design, the Rocket models have the same "unibody" frame construction. The Quickmill, Vibiemme, and Expobar models I'm familiar with are similarly designed with a pan-shaped stainless steel base (horizontal part of the T) and face (vertical part of the T). The ECM Giotto / Giotto Premium had a painted steel base; I don't know if Rocket upgraded that to stainless steel when adapting the design.

For sake of completeness, examples of espresso machines whose exterior panels serve no support function whatsoever include the La Cimbali Junior, La Spaziale Vivaldi II, and La Marzocco GS/3.
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Postby onthego on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:14 pm

Most "box" type single group espresso machines use the exterior case for structural support. Imagine an inverted T where the espresso machine's base is the T's horizontal line and the espresso machine's face is the T's vertical line.

No argument there, uni-body construction is the way most machines are built these days. Never the less they are constructed of bent sheet metal that has no internal structural support. I'm not saying that is necessarily a bad thing. But to my way of thinking an internal frame is a superior and more robust design. RecontraBacan's description of the Rocket sounded like a machine constructed with an internal frame and I don't see that as being a weakness. I find it hard to believe that Rocket would be using painted sheet metal that wasn't stainless, inside the machine but it is possible they are doing so to save a few bucks.

For sake of completeness, examples of espresso machines whose exterior panels serve no support function whatsoever include the La Cimbali Junior, La Spaziale Vivaldi II, and La Marzocco GS/3.

You can add the Rancilio Silvia and the Salvatore espresso machines to the list as well.
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Postby HB on Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:37 pm

onthego wrote:I'm not saying that is necessarily a bad thing.

Agreed. Assuming the machine doesn't flex when I lock in the portafilter, the particulars of the frame design would hold little sway in my buying decision.
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Postby Steve C on Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:48 am

Overload is typical when diving into the espresso world, especially when the budgets hit $1,500 or more for the "machine" and $400 plus for the grinder, with other goodies it easily hits $2,000 or more. At that range, it seems to come down to 1) how well will I be able to brew a drink I like and 2) do I like the way it looks.

I admit to being sold on the Rocket Giotto's looks but found it uncooperative in achieving results. That turned out to be due to it sitting in a warehouse for too long before it landed in my place. Turns out it was "new" but almost 2 years old based on manufacture date. It had lots of problems and eventually was returned.

The next time I went for a duo that would work well together and allow me to make great cappa's, my favorite. I went for the DB Brewtus III-V and never looked back. The steam wand is fantastic for microfoam and the PID is nice for temp changes for different coffees. It's a bit more basic looking but fashionable enough to look nice in most environments. Some say its build quality is not as high as others, but I've had mine for about a year now, use it every day and have not had one problem.

As most have already said, any of the machines you are looking at will produce good results, all we can do is give you our impressions and recommendations based on our personal experiences and in some cases hindsight gained through trial and error.

Whichever unit you go with make sure you get a good grinder. I remember when I bought the Vario and some were questioning its "build quality and plastic parts" now its one that is highly recommended for the prosumer market.

In the end go with your gut...if you've done your homework and talked to the dealers, most all of which are advertisers on this site, you'll be fine. PS...some dealers such as WLL have a buyer's remorse return policy which can take some of the apprehension out of the purchase, especially if one hasn't been able to see or try the machine one has zeroed in on.

Good Luck...
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