Hello all! I've been scouring these posts and can't seem to find an answer. Specifically anyone who has entertained a decent sized group (8+ people)! I currently have a StarBucks Barista which makes entertaining horribly slow. In my apartment, we drink on average something like 6-7 milk drinks a day, with the weekly 10+ drinks day when friends come over. Sometimes I need to make 6+ drinks at the same time. I was wondering how much faster a DB machine is when making that many cappas for people compared to an HX. Specifically is the quickmill Anita good enough, or is the $800 worth it for a La Spaziale Vivaldi II?

Thanks!

I'm a rookie and have no horse in this race, but if I had to make that many milk drinks in a row, I'd want the biggest boiler and water reservoir I could find in an HX if I wasn't going to spend the money for a DB. In this case, you could get the massive Vibiemme Domobar Super HX for about $239 more than Anita.....

One of the users on the Brewtus list did a test with various tips and with the stock 1 hole tip he could essentially steam continuously. With some of the bigger tips he had to wait a minute between pitchers.

The Brewtus is a dual boiler machine.

Ira

mlc85 wrote:Sometimes I need to make 6+ drinks at the same time. I was wondering how much faster a DB machine is when making that many cappas for people compared to an HX. Specifically is the quickmill Anita good enough, or is the $800 worth it for a La Spaziale Vivaldi II?

The prosumer / semi-commercial sweet spot for steaming is around 8 ounces. If you're into big gulp lattes, Anita will not keep up. If you're into modestly proportioned cappuccinos and prepare them serially, Anita and her ilk will do fine. That said, the advantage of the big steam machines isn't just capacity, they frequently have an advantage of producing velvety microfoam more easily. For example, the Elektra A3 is a steam locomotive and the only reviewed espresso machine to earn an unqualified perfect 10 for its "cappuccino lover's" score.

ira wrote:One of the users on the Brewtus list did a test with various tips and with the stock 1 hole tip he could essentially steam continuously.

But you will need the patience of Job to steam more than 8 ounces with that tip. It is glacially slow, albeit very easy for newbies.

Mason,

Picking up on what Dan said, I don't think your issue is "HX v. DB," but rather finding a machine with a large enough boiler for steam. You can find that on either an HX machine or a dual-boiler . . . it depends more upon the specific size of the boiler IN the machine, rather than the type of machine overall.

Cheers,
Jason

I used to have an ECM Giotto and it was horrible for serving guests. I actually leaned towards not offering coffee because I just didn't enjoy waiting so long, and the vibe pump was so loud that it drowned out conversation.

The La Marzocco GS3 has been a dream for serving guests. The rotary pump is quiet and it can steam big gulp 12 ounce latte's back to back no problem.

Easter weekend I had probably 20+ people over and was serving drinks non stop for 20-30 minutes. I served ten 12 ounce latte's and 2 pairs of cappuccino's back to back with only short stops to serve the coffee and ask if anyone else wanted a coffee. I could confidently steam and pull shots simultaneously. The machine kept up great, I never would have been able to pull that off with the ECM Giotto. A fast grinder also helps too. The Super Jolly is about twice as fast as the Mazzer Mini.

The La Marzocco GS3 and Rio Normale (Super Jolly) are an awesome combo for serving guests. Especially if it's like you said, (8+). With the ECM Giotto I would cringe at the thought of serving that many guests. With the GS3 I would welcome the opportunity.

As Dan mentioned, the home prosumer machines tend be optimized for the 6-8 ounce range. They will do more, but start to drop pressure. At 12-14 ounces most will fall flat (0.5 bars pressure if you are lucky). Once you get over 2 liters the performance shoots up. The VBM has a 3+ liter boiler has no problem doing 10-12 ounces of milk at a shot, the A3 has a 6 liter boiler and will happily steam 20 ounces or more, above that you can do half gallons at a shot. I know someone that has a 4 group LaMarzocco that can do a gallon of milk at a time.

So it breaks down to how you plan on steaming. If you are pulling a shot, steaming milk for that drink, pouring the drink, do the post shot cleaning (flush the shower screen, wipe out the portafilter and steam wand) before you start the next drink, one of the 1.5 liter machines may serve you just fine. If you are trying to bang out 4 shots in secession, and then steam 30 ounces of milk for all 4 at once, you will need a big boiler.

One of the benefits on a double boiler machine is that while the boilers are smaller in capacity, you can crank up the pressure on the steam boiler. With a heat exchanger machine you will be running in the 0.8- 1.3 bar range (depending on machine and personal preference) whereas the steam boiler on a double boiler system could be cranked up to 2.0 bar which will offset some of boiler capacity issues.

Rob,

I don't doubt that the GS/3 works as you say. I also don't doubt your comments about the ECM. And, again, I have no doubt that it has nothing to do with HX v. DB, but everything to do with your ECM having a boiler of only 1.8L, while the LM GS/3 has a steam boiler of nearly double that at 3.5L!

Now, since the GS/3 is a DB machine, if we add the capacity of the steam boiler to that of the brew boiler (1.5L), we have a 5.0L machine . . . only one liter smaller than the Elektra A3!

Cheers,
Jason

roblumba wrote:I used to have an ECM Giotto and it was horrible for serving guests. I actually leaned towards not offering coffee because I just didn't enjoy waiting so long, and the vibe pump was so loud that it drowned out conversation.

The La Marzocco GS3 has been a dream for serving guests. The rotary pump is quiet and it can steam big gulp 12 ounce latte's back to back no problem.

Easter weekend I had probably 20+ people over and was serving drinks non stop for 20-30 minutes. I served ten 12 ounce latte's and 2 pairs of cappuccino's back to back with only short stops to serve the coffee and ask if anyone else wanted a coffee. I could confidently steam and pull shots simultaneously. The machine kept up great, I never would have been able to pull that off with the ECM Giotto. A fast grinder also helps too. The Super Jolly is about twice as fast as the Mazzer Mini.

The La Marzocco GS3 and Rio Normale (Super Jolly) are an awesome combo for serving guests. Especially if it's like you said, (8+). With the ECM Giotto I would cringe at the thought of serving that many guests. With the GS3 I would welcome the opportunity.

is this a fair comparison, with over a $1500 difference in price?

I drive an acura, im willing to bet if i spent double on a car, id be happier.

LeoZ wrote:is this a fair comparison, with over a $1500 difference in price?

I drive an acura, im willing to bet if i spent double on a car, id be happier.

Maybe, but that correlation does not always play out in the espresso machine field. There is a point of diminished returns in equipment. Once you get beyond a point, you are paying for subtle changes in cup. What you get with the larger commercial machines is ease of use and repeatability. My A3 makes a darn good cup, and does it with ease and consistency; a LaMarzocco FB80 makes a darn good cup and is slightly more consistent. But the thing to ask yourself, does it make a $7000 better cup? Some can justify paying $10K for an espresso machine, but it is out of my reach.

Keep in mind the hub of the discussion is not the quality of shot, but the volume of steam for milk based drinks. I am assuming that Mason is perfectly happy with the espresso produced by his Barista but is looking for more steam power. The added quality in the cup is icing on the cake, but it is quite tasty icing.