I'm looking at the Bezzera BZ10 for the following reasons:
- HX espresso machine
- Compact size
- Relatively quiet vibratory pump
- Levers for steaming/HW
- Solid construction/Durable
- Heated GH, fast warm up

This will be my first espresso machine, so I want to make sure it fits my needs. I would drink between 2-4 doubles per day, either as straight espresso or in a cappuccino. I grew up with a single-boiler machine, and I don't want to live through that again (cold coffee, hot milk, long waits). My budget is sub-$2k CAD, including grinder, and I want this machine to last for 10+ years with regular cleaning/maintenance.

I can't find much info on Bezzera machines, and only idrinkcoffee.com seems to carry the brand in Canada. I can't figure out which models are new/old, and which will be replaced in the near future. Where does the BZ10 fit in the lineup? Help?

Also, I'm a bit confused as to the importance of a PID. I see the single-boiler Unica comes equipped with a PID, but not the more expensive HX BZ10. Is this because HX machines don't benefit from a PID, or because the BZ10 hasn't been updated yet? I'm expecting a steep learning curve, so a PID seems like a useful tool.

Finally, I've read some reports about issues with the GH gasket prematurely wearing out, as well as issues with bar pressure. Can anyone to speak to this? I'm just apprehensive because I don't know enough about espresso machines to properly diagnose/resolve this kind of issue. Are there any alternatives that you would recommend in this price range? I know Rocket and Izzo are held in high esteem, but they also cost substantially more given the features. Oh, and I don't care for an E61 GH if it takes an hour to warm up.

As for the grinder, I'm leaning toward the Vario-W. I like the weight-based approach, and I also need a grinder that can quickly alternate between espresso and french press. Is this a good option? I'm a bit concerned about the durability of the plastic-clad machine, but I can't find many alternatives in this price range that can do what it does.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

P.S. I figured the Vario-W, combined with a calibrated tamper, will likely help with the learning curve as dosing and tamping would be pretty straightforward, and I could then focus on the grind. Is this a sensible approach?

The BZ07 and BZ10 are well priced, well performing machines. Their main competition are HX machines with E61 groups (the "E61 boxes"). Compared to E61 boxes, the Bezzeras warm up faster, require little or no cooling flushes, and recover faster after pulling shots. However, the group design is not friendly to overdosed baskets; so if you like using a lot of coffee in each shot, the E61s may be a better fit.

jferreir wrote:I can't find much info on Bezzera machines, and only idrinkcoffee.com seems to carry the brand in Canada. I can't figure out which models are new/old, and which will be replaced in the near future. Where does the BZ10 fit in the lineup? Help?

Bezzera makes two different lines of HXs. The machines in one line are designated by names, the others by number. The named machines use the E-61 group head design, which is temp stabilized with a "thermo-siphon" reservoir, and has preinfusion.

The numerics have a different group which is stablized electronically, but (as far as I know) do not have pre-infusion. Pre-infusion is a very nice thing to have, but a little less important in a vibe pump machine.

The BZ10 is a "compact." Compact is a good thing if you need the counter space, but a PITA if you don't. It's an even bigger PITA with E-61 semi-autos because of the placement of the lever.

The espresso machine market is extremely competitive, and with very few exceptions, machines at any given price are very competitive straight across the board.

Also, I'm a bit confused as to the importance of a PID. I see the single-boiler Unica comes equipped with a PID, but not the more expensive HX BZ10. Is this because HX machines don't benefit from a PID, or because the BZ10 hasn't been updated yet? I'm expecting a steep learning curve, so a PID seems like a useful tool.

The PID doesn't affect user operation on an HX. Relative to a p-stat, it's alternative, it has no effect on temping, or any other part of the learning curve.

I've read some reports about issues with the GH gasket prematurely wearing out, as well as issues with bar pressure. Can anyone to speak to this? I'm just apprehensive because I don't know enough about espresso machines to properly diagnose/resolve this kind of issue.

Don't know.

Are there any alternatives that you would recommend in this price range? I know Rocket and Izzo are held in high esteem, but they also cost substantially more given the features. Oh, and I don't care for an E61 GH if it takes an hour to warm up.

An inexpensive power strip / timer would resolve most of your E-61 fears.

At the price, the Breville Double Boiler 920XL is something special. It's one of the few exceptions to the "spend the same, get the same" rule of thumb. It's so feature-laden, and so user friendly, it's something of a no-brainer; unless, that is, traditional European construction is a high priority.

Since I don't know which HXs are and are not available in Canada, there are better people to break that market down for you.

As for the grinder, I'm leaning toward the Vario-W. I like the weight-based approach, and I also need a grinder that can quickly alternate between espresso and french press. Is this a good option? I'm a bit concerned about the durability of the plastic-clad machine, but I can't find many alternatives in this price range that can do what it does.

Like the BDB the Vario is a fantastic performer for the money, but plasticky.

I can't speak to using the built in scale for espresso, because I see dosing into the catch-bin as a colossal PITA and would use the time-dosing feature if I owned a Vario. Don't let one opinion put you off. Some people like the scale for espresso; and, it seems that it would be a real boon for press.

A lot of people who use the Vario as an all purpose grinder report that the grinder will not return to the same espresso grind with consistency -- and that means dialing-in anew every time you change from one brewing method to another. Others don't have the problem.

Furthermore, there seems to be some relationship between failure of the plastic burr support arms and using the grinder for more than one brewing method. In short, Vario problems don't seem to be related with the plastic on the outside.

A better built espresso only grinder will be more expensive. Better quality in the cup will be more expensive still. If you want Baratza's opinion, the Forte is their version of the Vario perfected; it costs almost as twice as much. But if you really want an all-purpose grinder, the difference in construction quality justifies the Forte's premium.

Machines at the level you're considering are capable of showing off much better grinders than the Vario. You'd do better in the cup (IMO) with a grinder in the Super Jolly class (there are models made by several different makers) and a separate brew grinder than using the Vario as an all-purpose stand alone. But, of course, that would cost considerably more.

Speaking of brew grinders, the Vario, especially when equipped with the steel, "B" burrs, is very, very good.

I figured the Vario-W, combined with a calibrated tamper, will likely help with the learning curve as dosing and tamping would be pretty straightforward, and I could then focus on the grind. Is this a sensible approach?

Not really.

A calibrated tamper is educational the first few times you use it, then it becomes a novelty item. If you could borrow one for a week, it would be a good thing... but unless you like playing with gadgets for their own sake, don't waste your money.

Using the built-in scale for espresso requires using the catch-bin instead of the pf holder, which means adding an extra step. Time dosing (also a built in function) is sufficiently accurate for all but the most obsessive baristi, and can be done with the fork. (If you plan on using the pf holder, order the Forte version -- it's a slide in replacement and much better than the stock Vario holder.)

The Vario W does not have a timer.

Baratza claims the timer is capable of delivering dosing consistency plus or minus 0.2g; but I think that's optimistic.

If you are super concerned about weight accuracy, consider single dosing by weight rather than using the Vario W scale. Single dosing carries some other benefits.

Like a stock Vario, my non-Baratza grinder is an "on demand" with a built-in timer-doser which doses for me. Sometimes I weigh the dose (in the pf) in a stand alone scale for purposes of checking the dose for consistency and accuracy and for computing brew ratio. I'm telling you not so much to recommend the technique as offering some insight into a common, real world alternative.

Even if you get the Vario W, you'll want a good stand alone scale for weighing shots, as well as all sorts of other purposes.

FWIW, Baratza also claims something like 230 distinct "steps" of grind adjustment which is either accurate but misleading or complete horse$#it, depending on how you look at it. I don't know the exact number of unique adjustments, but roughly half of Baratza's number is overlap.

Rich

boar_d_laze wrote: Bezzera makes two different lines of HXs. The machines in one line are designated by names, the others by number. The named machines use the E-61 group head design, which is temp stabilized with a "thermo-siphon" reservoir, and has preinfusion.

The numerics have a different group which is stablized electronically, but (as far as I know) do not have pre-infusion. Pre-infusion is a very nice thing to have, but a little less important in a vibe pump machine

I, too, have some interest in the Bezzera machines for when I eventually upgrade to a home unit. Their compact footprint, build quality, and competitive pricing are some of the reasons.

Rich, do you know if the two different groups Bezzera uses produce different results in the cup?

Also, how unfriendly are Bezzera groups to dosing more than 14g?

Cheers!

The Bezzera group (not the E61s) shares the group bell design with Brasilia and Elektra. You can get around 17 grams into a double before hitting the shower screen. If you does higher, so the puck touches the shower screen, the shot quality goes sharply downhill.

Rich, thank you for providing such a detailed reply.

The naming convention for the various models makes sense, and I'm a bit surprised this isn't clearly explained on the Bezzera website (or any of their retailers, for that matter). I still think I would prefer the proprietary GH over the E61 because it just seems more practical for my purposes - shorter warm up time, lower cost, fewer levers. My only remaining question with the BZ10 is whether it's due for an immediate upgrade or replacement. I take it no one has any info on this?

My primary concern with Breville is the long-term reliability and servicing. Will parts be available 10 years from now? Would I be able to have it serviced locally? How much of the machine is constructed from plastic? And so on. But I still think that a double-boiler is complete overkill for my purposes, not to mention the increased power consumption and larger footprint. I have a cozy kitchen, to put it mildly, so a compact design is really quite important. This is what initially drew me to the BZ10, among other things.

Now, I thought I had the grinder situation all figured out, but evidently not. I was initially impressed by the Vario-W for the following reasons:
- Solid reputation for performance/durability
- Weight-based dosing
- Ability to grind for both espresso and french press
- Ability to easily dial-in grind (the number/letter system - easy to record optimal settings)
- Compact footprint

The problem with the high-end grinders is their size. I don't have much clearance above the counter (~16.5"), and I really don't need a commercial grade machine. I want something that can produce a consistent grind for both espresso and french press, be durable enough to last for years, and also be compact in size. Given the current offerings, what brands/models would you recommend? I'd really like to keep the price at or below $500CAD. The lack of a PF holder doesn't really bother me; it makes dosing for the french press easier, plus it reduces mess by keeping the grinds in a container. To each their own, I suppose.

And I will forgo the calibrated tamper as you suggest. I'm sure I can master 30lb of pressure soon enough, and I can measure the force with a scale until I have it perfected.

Looking forward to more responses

I have BZ10.
What I find really fantastic is the electrical heating of the group.
It's the only feature that allow me to drink a good coffee in the morning rush.
Before it, my morning coffees were always too cold.
alberto

Anyone know if there's an in-the-cup difference between the two group designs used in Bezzera machines? (E61 vs their proprietary group) Do the shots have different characteristics?

Don't know about their particular E61s, but compared to most E61 boxes, the shots at their best are a little cleaner and clearer tasting, but lower in body. This as been a fairly constant observation with comparisons between Livias (same innards as the old BZ01), Elektras (same group bell), and various of the Bezzeras with their own group versus the standard E61s out there. These comparisons go back around 12 years, starting with Mark Prince, and involve about five different people doing formal equipment reviews (including me). So I would guess the characterization is reliable.

canuckcoffeeguy wrote:Anyone know if there's an in-the-cup difference between the two group designs used in Bezzera machines? (E61 vs their proprietary group) Do the shots have different characteristics?

First, some perspective: At some level of machine competence, assuming you can get temp and distribution right, the grinder will make a much bigger difference than the difference between groups.

So, y'know:
GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER

Meanwhile back at the group:
E-61s have a pre-infusion scheme. I'm not sure about the other Bezzera groups. Since pre-infusion isn't advertised as a feature, it's a fair but weak inference that they don't. Pre-infusion goes at least some way in correcting distribution errors... but only if they're not too big. And to further muddy the waters, it's worth repeating that pre-infusion isn't as big a deal with a vibratory pump machine as with a rotary, as the vibe ramp is a kinda, sorta, mini pre-infusion.

E-61 group (Faema and clone) temp stability is variable, depending on how well the group is tuned to the machine with gicleurs. It isn't a matter of whether the E-61 requires cooling flushes, but how often and how long. In general, the art of using an HX to its best advantages involves an understanding that temping the group and temping the brew water aren't quite the same thing. You temp the group -- which tends to be more stable than the water in the HX -- with the expectation that the group's stability and low thermal efficiency will correct small errors in the more thermally efficient water pumped from the HX during the pull.

However:

• A. There's a range of HX behaviors. Dan's done a good job of putting them into three classes, Dragons; Mixers; and Agnostics; and
  B. I haven't had any experience with an independently heated HX group, and that may make a difference.

Speaking of which...
I'm not sure, but believe that the current (non E-61) Bezzera groups are not the same as those which Jim, Mark and others tested a decade ago (which, in my experience, were "Dragons" that required cooling a helluva lot more than they required heating; but believe the new machines are "Mixers"), and without knowing more wouldn't assume that the new groups behave the same as the old.

Rich