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HX and PID: Incompatible? - Page 2

Postby erics on Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:44 pm

Timing the extractions, the times vary by as much as 3x for the same volume.

Yikes! As with Ian, I assure you that temperature IS NOT the problem. So, try this as a starting point for a short while:

Get 15 grams of grinds in a small container - use the scale's tare feature.
Fluff them up a little and spoon into the portafilter.
Evenly distribute with your finger and tamp.

On a fully warmed up machine as previously described, flush four ounces and pull the shot. Stop at a shot weight of 30 +/- 1 grams. Subsequent shots at 5 minutes or less - maybe a cursory 1-2 ounce screen flush then go.
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Postby Mayhem on Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:21 am

smuseby wrote:Is this the same thing as the 'Scace 2'?

No. The Scace is used to measure temperature and/or pressure for a simulated shot, but cannot be used during an actual shot. The EricS adapter lets you mount a thermometer where there is currently a bolt on the front of your grouphead, to measure brew water temperature during actual brewing and should help you figure out a flush routine that'll let you hit a desired target temperature.
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Postby smuseby on Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:21 am

WDT - ? Don't know what that is.
I weigh the beans on the way into the grinder, and run it until everything is ground. I press the basket with about 5 pounds, knock it on the edges a few times, and then apply 30# (with my clicking tamper), polish it, and remove the loose stuff on the edges. It is definitely level.
My scale registers 1g increments, so possibly two shots of 17.5g and 18.4g respectively are making the difference. Cranking the basket on with mechanical advantage provided by both the screw and the lever on a slightly overfilled basket would tamp the coffee with a lot more than 30# - maybe this is the culprit.
I just took a barista class this past weekend, and the pros poked the basket after the extraction, and the coffee was a little soft; mine is hard, which suggests that I may be using a bit too much coffee.
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Postby HB on Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:27 am

smuseby wrote:WDT - ? Don't know what that is.

See Weiss Distribution Technique.
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Postby cafeIKE on Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:14 am

smuseby wrote:WDT - ? Don't know what that is.
I weigh the beans on the way into the grinder, and run it until everything is ground. I press the basket with about 5 pounds, knock it on the edges a few times, and then apply 30# (with my clicking tamper), polish it, and remove the loose stuff on the edges. It is definitely level.
My scale registers 1g increments, so possibly two shots of 17.5g and 18.4g respectively are making the difference. Cranking the basket on with mechanical advantage provided by both the screw and the lever on a slightly overfilled basket would tamp the coffee with a lot more than 30# - maybe this is the culprit.
I just took a barista class this past weekend, and the pros poked the basket after the extraction, and the coffee was a little soft; mine is hard, which suggests that I may be using a bit too much coffee.

Grind a couple of grams first shot to clear the detritus.
Weigh a few doses n the basket to make sure input = output
Don't knock on the side. Give a gentle side to side shake to level, then tamp gently.
IMO, 30# is a myth. It's easier to make a lighter tamp and there's less likelihood of can't

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Postby erics on Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:16 am

My scale registers 1g increments, so possibly two shots of 17.5g and 18.4g respectively are making the difference.

I am not familiar enough with the double basket that comes with the Rocket Giotto to discuss capacities BUT my experience with the baskets from other semi-commercial machine manufacturers tells me that 17.5 grams is overfilled. I also realize that coffee densities vary. I suggest you obtain a 0.1 gram scale - they are inexpensive and well discussed here: Recommended inexpensive scale for weighing coffee? .

Try this: After you have tamped the coffee and inserted the portafilter, remove the portafilter and inspect the surface of the coffee and the machine screen. Has there been contact? :( You should be able to lay a nickel on the coffee surface and have no disturbance of the bed after inserting the portafilter. Since a nickel is close to 2.0 mm (1.95 mm), this provides for a nice clearance between the screen and the coffee bed.
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Postby Master_Hobbit on Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:18 am

Yeah Robert, I'm struggling with similar (though less drastic) problems right now. Getting your dose and distribution right is a PITA.

First thing I would do is grab a .1g scale. I use the American Weigh SC-2KG (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RF3XJ2) and it's made a big difference.

Think of it this way. A scale with 1g of variation will register everything from 17.5g to 18.4g as 18g. If you're using that to measure espresso, that means you have an inherent, built-in margin of error for your dose of around 6%. Basically, you could be updosing 1.1g and not even know it!

After you have improved dose consistency, look up the stockfelth moves, nutating tamp, Weiss distribution technique, and all the other fun distribution and tamping methods on this site. There are nearly as many methods as there are baristas, but there are a few rules of thumb.

1) Make sure the coffee is evenly distributed inside the portafilter (IE not all pushed against one side or the other)
2) Make sure the coffee is level in the portafilter before you tamp.
3) Be sure that your tamp is level
4) Don't knock the portafilter. It seems to shake the puck loose from the side of the basket, and leads to side channeling.
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Postby cafeIKE on Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:35 pm

Master_Hobbit wrote:A scale with 1g of variation will register everything from 17.5g to 18.4g as 18g

More like from 16.5 to 19.5.
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