As I explore prosumer espresso machines i notice that some established companies are marketing new models or new machines
For example the Lucca being offered by one retailer or the ECM Elektronika, an advanced model of their existing Technika HX machine.
Tempting machines. But is it best with this genre to wait for some period of time before considering?
(not sure how I would find a track record but ..)

From How to choose an espresso machine and grinder at the "right" price:

HB wrote:Q. Where to you recommend buying espresso equipment?

A. Keep in mind that when buying new from a reputable vendor, a lot of what you pay for is service after the sale. The espresso equipment we discuss on this site has a small, specialized market. While everyone enjoys a bargain, if something goes wrong with the equipment later, you may regret saving a fraction of the purchase price when parts/service/advice are needed. Beware of fraudulent online espresso equipment vendors gives examples of how a "great deal" can lead to headaches. As the website owner, I am admittedly biased, but I believe the HB sponsors are among the best vendors on the Internet; you can find them listed under Commerce on the Resources page.

By shopping by vendor instead of manufacturer, you leverage the vendor's experience and support rather than relying on adhoc reports from forums, blogs, etc.

Barb, you're back! Have you been able to look at machines in person? I mentioned this in your other thread. It's helpful to see equipment up close and ask questions face to face. But not sure what retailers, if any, are in the Chicago area.

There's different ways of looking for machines depending if you plan on maintaining the machine yourself, or having the vendor or manufacturer do it.

Buying is easier if you plan on doing your own basic maintenance and repairs. In this case you should ask how good the parts department and phone support are for each potential vendor. The vendors Dan mentions are very good at this, and most HBers do it this way.

If you plan to let someone else do the routine service and repairs; you need to ask more questions: about shipping back and forth, whether they have partnerships with a local distributors and repair sites, etc, etc. If you have to put your machine on a slow boat to China to have the pressure stat changed; I don't think you'll be very happy. So one major reason people buy the more expensive full commercial machines from major manufacturers is because they have established networks of local distributors to do the shipping and repairs.

Lucca isn't exactly a manufacturer; more of a semi-customizer of other makers' machines and most of the changes are cosmetic or tuning. As I understand it, you get the same reliability from a Lucca as from the original manufacturer -- La Spaziale and Quick Mill -- or better. But you should call Clive, they sell Lucca in North America.

I don't believe Lucca "makes" a switchable, rotary HX.

As far as I know the Elektronika is currently sold in the US (only?) by WLL. If you're interested you should call them and ask if there are any issues.

WLL doesn't have a great reputation on H-B, but I've made several large purchases with WLL and my experience with their tech department has been very good.

Whether or not you have access to a good selection of espresso machine retailers in Chicago, you certainly have access to a lot of good techs. You'd be surprised how reasonable repair costs are. Unless a lot of really bad stuff happens while the machine is still under warranty it's typically less expensive to have it done than to ship anything as large and fragile as a large prosumer machine across the country.

Rich

In general any truly
New model of anything will have more problems in its first iteration. Reading various reviews of new machines (at coffeegeek i believe the new mini linea review says the same) they frequently mention that those getting a new model should be knowledgable of how to do basic maintenance and feel comfortable with disassembly.

Its important not to take that too far with excellent companies though. The newer and more updated the model the more likely problems will be, and the newer the company the more likely it is to have problems.

A comparison to cars seems valid. Any new release of a brand new toyota will obviously undergoes improvements after year 1, but years 5-6 are likely just modest changes. A "bigger" update that changes some of the curves and a few electronics is unlikely to be a problem, but a brand new engine and transmission design would be somewhat more risky but you can rely on being taken care of and that problems will be minimal for most users. Even moreso with luxury car companies.

If i start a new car company and sell you the first of the series:) well...good luck.

Extreme analogy, but the idea is self explanatory and appears to hold true for espresso machine a as well. However, one day Arist will be the exception. Dont over analyze it.

Afterall of that, the short answer is to determine how revolutionary the changes are in the machine, and to get an idea of how well reputed and established a manufacturer is.

Thanks, all
Interesting the comment about many techs in Chicago. Would have thought so but I could not find anyone able to install a PID on my Silvia
One unreliable tech who advertises (Espresso World) who garners very mixed reviews on Yelp. He ruined my little Starbucks Saeco "Barista" years ago.

Still researching (meanwhile a few more Shekels can go in the bank to pay for my special espresso machine when selected)

Barb wrote:Interesting the comment about many techs in Chicago. Would have thought so but I could not find anyone able to install a PID on my Silvia. One unreliable tech who advertises (Espresso World) who garners very mixed reviews on Yelp. He ruined my little Starbucks Saeco "Barista" years ago.

Finding a good tech to work on a Barista or Silvia is probably more difficult than finding someone to work on a higher end prosumer.

Call Chris Coffee (aka CC) and talk to Mary or Mackenzie about machine advice in general -- that is, what you should buy. They'll probably push DBs as HXs, but if you really want an HX, let them know. They'll listen to you and respect your choices -- one of the things which makes them so good. And while you have them on the phone... ask about whom they recommend to do work in Chicago just in case something goes wrong.

CC doesn't want to ship machines back and forth anymore than you do.

I've made a couple of really large purchases from Chris; received excellent advice from Mary who set me up with the machine which suited me better than anything else -- even though I was willing to pay twice as much; have received advice from their repair department on self-service projects; and used the local (Los Angeles) tech they recommended when the job was too big for me.

In terms of Dan's recommendation to look at the retailer as much as the machine: You have to look very hard to find someone to say anything negative about the customer service at CC.

Besides, the advice is free.

Rich

Welcome back, Barb! A shame about your previous thread being hijacked, it was very informative.

I am new to the market, so I dunno how accurate this is. But I feel prosumer espresso machines are a bit of a niche and thus the extensive testing needed to identify common failure points and improve on them is slow, in part because the manufacturer's depend on communication from vendors who provide the service. One of the things I liked about Quick Mill (which I ultimately purchased) was that it's not the first generation, and that Chris (of Chris' Coffee) had some design input. And since my machine is a major purchases that I expect to keep and maintain, I wanted something that had readily available parts.

I guess that's the long way of me saying that a new machine is hard to vet. I'd still pick what you like best and buy from a reputable vendor that you can trust to support you and get you parts if you need them.

$0.02

Mike, (Gig103)
good thinking.. from all of you
Wish the field was not so large and HX, DB and then there are Piston machines...
Yes I am noticing good comments about "CC" so that vendor is high on my list.Would also help me make a decision as each vendor only carries, handles a subset of espresso machines.So, choose vendor, helps narrow the field of machines