Hello all HB members,
I'm new to HB and i'm learning a lot. I'm about to make a purchase of Alex Duetto II and mazzer mini. I was wondering how long would the machine and grinder last me? let's day i brew 10-20 shots a day, descale every 2 months and back flush regular. I know all things break down, but i'm just curious. I'm also curious how is LM GS3 better than duetto II? From my very low knowledge, GS3 might be better at water stability and the brew group they use solid piece of metal instead of screen like duetto II. Is duetto II capable of brewing shots as good as GS3?

Thank you all in advance and i appreciate all feedback!
Suthee

Welcome! Sure, the Duetto II can make shots as good as the GS3, almost any machine could. The difference is the GS3 is easier to produce consistently great shots on. The term "forgiveness factor" has been talked about here lately and commercial quality machines like the GS3 have it in spades. That doesn't mean that owning a GS3 will ensure good coffee. You still need skills

However, having previously owned a Mini, I can tell you that your grinder will have more to do with the quality of your shots on a consistent basis. Upgrading to a better grinder will give you the most bang for the buck.

Good luck and enjoy the journey!

That is quite a comparison- a $2400 machine to a $6500 machine. The law of diminishing returns is in force here. While it would be interesting to create a Titan Test of those two along with the New VBM DS and VBM DD in the mix, as has been mentioned, once you enter the double boiler range of machines questions that surround quality of espresso virtually disappear and important factors center around visual appeal, counter space, and bank accounts.

If that is a serious comparison aimed at a purchase decision, you might think about pairing your new machine with a better grinder than the mini.

GS3 will probably have less shot temperature variability for a given set point. Any exposed group e61 is susceptible to ambient conditions. Relevance varies on the coffee, dose, shot volume and personal taste.

One thing for certain is the GS3 is exceedingly complex to achieve its performance. There are several GS3 threads dealing with issues of noisy pumps, rattling hoses, plugged gicleurs, leaking valves, flooded control boxes, etc. Things that should not occur in the 'Rolls-Royce' of prosumer machines. Of course, I know a fellow who had two Rolls : one to drive, one to fix... also an option for the GS3

On purchasing advice, I say split the difference. Decide to buy the GS3; change your mind and go back to the Duetto and buy a K10, Robur, or similar with the money you 'save.'

Mazzer Mini vs. Titan grinder is a significant difference compared to GS3 vs. Duetto.

I own a Duetto and have the privilege of using my friend's GS3 on a relatively regular basis. I'd say the quality of cup they both produce are pretty on par. I enjoy using both machines equally but would be foolish to think that the Duetto is as nice as the GS3. It's simply not. The craftsmanship, the technology, and the looks are, IMO, superior to the Duetto.

The GS3 has ample drip tray real estate as well as height from the drip tray to the group. Both depth and height are scarce with the Duetto compared to other machines, but over use, has become a non-issue for me.

The GS3 has a very large reservoir that's super easy to fill and has the pre-infusion feature in reservoir mode. The Duetto and other E61 lever machines require it to be plumbed in to get pre-infusion (with the lever being in the middle position).

I haven't done any maintenance procedures to the GS3, nor do I plan to, but it seems a bit more complex than the Duetto.

So far with the Duetto, I've been able to take apart the cam lever assembly without any issues and I will presume the disassembly of the entire E61 group shouldn't pose any major challenges either. There's lots of resources available on the E61 so that helps out a lot.

If I had 6k to blow on equipment, I would still buy the Duetto (or maybe the VBM DD) along with a K30 Vario grinder. If I had more than 6k to just spend on a machine, I'd probably buy a Speedster.

Listen to what the experts are telling you: the grinder has much more to do with producing great espresso consistently than does the machine.

I started out with a Macap M4, similar to the Mini, and a Silvia. I quickly ditched Silvia and bought a GS/3. The difference was stark, to say the least, but most of it had to do with the forgiveness factor and ease of use. I wouldn't say the GS/3 made better shots, per se, but it allowed me to make better shots more easily and more consistently.

But I still had issues with quality and consistency of the grind. I replace the M4 with a Baratza Vario and there was a dramatic improvement in taste and consistency. The little BV is a great performer for the money. But after a few months I began to feel that I could get more flavor out of the coffees I was drinking, and there was also room for improvement in consistency.

I finally upgraded to a "Titan" grinder, a Compak K10 WBC, and that made a huge and lasting difference to the quality and consistency of my espresso. The grinder pulls more flavor out of the beans, and is rock solid on consistency -- the grind is perfectly repeatable from one shot to the next.

Why is consistency important? There are many variables that can be adjusted when making espresso: the coffee itself, the grind setting, the dose, the temperature, the pressure, the extraction ratio, shot volume, shot time, etc. As you try to dial in a coffee to find the optimum settings for these parameters, the job becomes almost impossible if the grinder can't produce the same result from one shot to the next. Many of the sub-Titan grinders with smaller burrs lack consistency, so when the shot changes you don't know if it was mainly due to bumping the dose by a gram or a change in the grind. That's why a rock-solid and consistent grinder is so important.

Some also feel that larger burr grinders bring out more flavors from the coffee, and that the specific burr configuration can affect taste. The Titan test results suggest that large conical burr grinders bring out a little more acidity or fruitiness, while large flat burr grinders bring out a little more of the caramel and chocolate flavors.

Frankly, I wish I had paid more attention to the experts on HB and invested in a Titan grinder from the get-go. It would have saved me a lot of frustration in learning how to dial in coffees.

I've not used a Duetto II, but I've researched the machine. I think it's a very good value for the money. While HX machines are perfectly reasonable if you learn how to control the brew temperature, personally I prefer the freedom from temperature management offered by double boiler machines. There are a lot of great design features in the Duetto II, and I'm sure it will make a great cup of espresso -- provided you get a high quality grinder.

Yeah, all things considered I think the GS/3 is a better machine. There's really nothing in its price range or below that can compare for temperature stability, forgiveness, ease of use, etc. The build quality is several levels above the Duetto II. The current production GS/3s incorporate solutions to many of the problems we had with earlier machines, though not all of them (e.g., the logic board is still exposed to leaks that may occur inside the machine.)

I think it's something of a budget question. If you have the money to spend, get a Titan grinder and a GS/3. If not, then get a Titan grinder and a Duetto II. You'll be happy either way. But whatever machine you select, get the Titan grinder.

Thank you all for knowledge! This is a lot to take in >.<. Would mazzer mini e grinder do the job?
Peppersass, do you know where can i read more about conical burr grinder?

I wouldn't get one. You're better off with a Vario if you want the convenience of electronic dosing. The Mini-E has a larger burrset than the Mini, but it's not reputed to be much if any better—certainly not on par with titan grinders.