I have been reading all I can find here and elsewhere and all I can surmise is that it is the grinder that sets the standard for all other's. I have been advised to replace my Mini with a better grinder and since I only want to do this once, I figure I might as well get the best of what's out there. Partly because I don't want to regret such a large expense when I read about a "better" grinder just a month after buying this one! Here's my current situation. I have a single group Linea that I bought about 8 years ago. I also bought a Mini at that time. In the beginning I was making passable espresso. Then I put the Linea in the garage after a mechanical failure and no time to undertake a repair. There it sat for many months until I finally had enough with mediocre coffee. I repaired the Linea with the help of this forum. The problem is, now that I've been reading many threads on this forum, I can make fairly good espresso with the occasional WOW shot! Now that I can make fairly decent espresso, I am attempting to make great, consistent coffee shot after shot.

The thing is, I only make one or two shots a day during the week but I want those shots to be great. It was brought to my attention in another thread that my grinder may be a fault (I though it was the machine). So now I turn my attention to the grinder.

I will most likely order a Robur this week. I see that the least expensive deal out there is $2,181.25 at prima-coffee.com. Does anyone have any experience with these folks? Are they reputable? I usually buy from espressoparts but they are very expensive! I would rather support the advertisers on this site (which prima-coffee is), does anyone know if they stand behind their products with great support and return policy?

If anyone has any other advice they can offer, I would be very grateful as this is a big expense and I don't want to regret it down the road.

Thanks!

Also, if anyone could let me know about any HB discounts or promotions available, I would also appreciate that!

Never used a Robur personally, but the best commercial shots have all come from Roburs.

That being said, so have many of the worst.

The Robur is a great grinder, but it may not be a great home grinder. There are not a lot of people using one at least on HB and several people have bought them and later gotten rid of them due to things like too much waste.

You may want to read the "Can it beat the robur" thread and the Compak K10WBC vs Robur thread.

My take is that there is a fine line between many of these Titans and that you may be as well served with something like the K10WBC. Just because it is 1/3 the price doesn't mean it won't work as well or last as long in a home environment. Depending on your taste and your usage pattern a K30 or a Nino might be your ultimate grinder. I think it is clear that the Robur produces a great grind, but it is also clear that it isn't the best home grinder hands down even forgetting about price - there are lots of contenders for that title including the Robur.

Seen this?
Titan Grinder Project: Can it Beat the Mazzer Robur?


The Macap M7K and the Doge Conico and the Compak K10 and the Nino all use similar burrsets and so all will produce great results in the cup. I only have experience with the Macap and Mazzer but a few people I know and trust also believe that the Compak grinder also does a great job in the cup.

The Mazzer is the heaviest, but all are designed for commercial use and will last a lifetime in the home.

In your other thread it was suggested that you may want to try some of the artisan roasted espresso coffees before deciding to upgrade the grinder. I am a home roaster myself (for 6 years now) and to my own tastes I would say that many of my roasts compare favorably to some of the good roasters out there.

But I would also say that there are some roasters out there who consistently blow my socks off. Some of these folks are probably worth a try. Of course you can still upgrade the grinder, but while you are deciding it is probably worthwhile to taste some of the great coffees out there

You balked at spending a couple of hundred dollars on a Scace Thermofilter and now you're getting ready (anxious as all hell) to spend 2K+ on a grinder primarily designed for high volume cafes ???? Of course it is a good grinder but . . . so is the Mazzer Mini.

I would suggest a drive from Florida to Raleigh-Durham, NC where there is a gathering (of very friendly and knowledgable folk) every Friday at 7:30 AM at the Counter Culture facility and where you can test out all the Roburs you want. And perhaps you could bring the mini with you to do a reasonable A-B test ?

PS - after your Mazzer swallowed a "pellet", it might be a good idea to inspect the burrs.

For what it's worth, I have three "titan class" grinders for test purposes, specifically the Compak K10 WBC, Mazzer Robur, and Mazzer Super Jolly. If I had to choose only one, I would pick the K10. To my taste, it performs as well as the Robur, but the K10 is more "home friendly" in terms of size, speed, ergonomics, etc.

You have reasonably good equipment and I would work to be consistent with that first then move on and upgrade grinder. I don't think grinder will solve your problems.

Specifically this is what I would try:

- Weigh every single of your doses using 0.1g scale. You can get them cheap on Amazon (jewelry scale). Weighing your doses is one of the biggest improvement in consistency you can make if you have good equipment, and you do.
- If you don't have PID on your Linea get one if it is possible
- Once you get consistent results using all this look into getting new grinder

So unless you get consistent good results already, I don't think grinder will get you there.

I own the very same Kony which was used in the Titan Grinder test mentioned above. It is similar to, but smaller and slower than the Robur. Neither of these grinders are designed for home use. Modifications need to be made (most notably, the doser flapper-switch must be removed for access to the throat. With the switch in place the throat is totally inaccessible and a good amount of coffee is left in there). They are also freakin' huge... I love when folks come over and see it for the first time.

For $2000+ for grinder I would suggest waiting and going to the NC meet mentioned above, or even visit one of the suppliers who can demo the various grinders.

HB wrote:For what it's worth, I have three "titan class" grinders for test purposes, specifically the Compak K10 WBC, Mazzer Robur, and Mazzer Super Jolly. If I had to choose only one, I would pick the K10. To my taste, it performs as well as the Robur, but the K10 is more "home friendly" in terms of size, speed, ergonomics, etc.

Agreed. I traded in the Nino for a K10WBC to single dose, and I've had mine for a few weeks now. It's striking how spectacularly different the 300rpm burr speed is for single dosing vs. 600rpm or whatever the Nino is. I've owned the Robur before, and I didn't even try single dosing with it till after I sold it to Jon, only to realize that it's also quite good at it and doesn't seem to make a perceptible difference in shot consistency or quality vs. grinding with beans in the hopper. I wish I'd never sold my Robur for that reason, but on the other hand I am very pleased with the K10 as a replacement that was fully funded by the sale of the Nino.

I would strongly emphasize the point that the Robur's 71 mm burrset is virtually geometrically identical to all the 68 mm burrs I have seen. The difference is the mounting system on the burrs means that the outer burrs from these various sets are all mounted entirely different. So while the burrs are cosmetically different, I'd be willing to bet a LOT on the contention that variations in burr quality (see above link for that too) from set to set probably outweighs any variation among these different grinders. If there is any systematic difference between them in the cup, I am very sure it's got everything to do with their rotational speeds: The K10 is ~300 rpm, the Robur is ~450-500 rpm, the Nino is ~600 rpm, and I am sure the others fall somewhere in that spectrum.

Now that I've tried the Compak, I really struggle to imagine justifying the purchase of the Robur for home. I got the polished aluminum version, and to me the build quality is very high and the lower weight is quite welcome as well. Of course the Robur is just the absolute finest in terms of having the toughest components, but my guess is the primary practical benefit the home user gets from this is a better workout when moving the grinder: They're both very well made overall. I understand this is an improvement for Compak, as they previously had issues with bad switches and annoying doser lids in their older models.

In terms of single dosing: the Compak's doser is slightly better, with a smoother action on the lever and slightly quieter operation in my experience. However, the Compak does have a bizarrely designed chute that requires significant modification to make chute sweeping work well, and the Compak also has a weaker 'throw' of coffee out the chute than the Robur on account of its slower burr rotation. The practical upshot of that is that it seems to need a little more bumping to clear the chamber. Not too big a deal for me.