bluesman wrote:No disrespect intended, but you don't seem to know what a PID is - the wheel on the LMLM is only the control point and serves the same function as a digital button/readout. The PID is not the readout and up/down buttons that you prefer - it's a feedback loop that (in the case of an espresso machine) indirectly sets the temp. From National Instruments: "Proportional-Integral-Derivative (PID) control is the most common control algorithm used in industry and has been universally accepted in industrial control. The popularity of PID controllers can be attributed partly to their robust performance in a wide range of operating conditions and partly to their functional simplicity, which allows engineers to operate them in a simple, straightforward manner. As the name suggests, PID algorithm consists of three basic coefficients; proportional, integral and derivative which are varied to get optimal response." A PID is entirely analog and controls a linear analog function, and the LMLM wheel is the epitome of simple and straightforward operation.

The Linea Mini does have a PID like that in any other espresso machine - it's inside the machine, and the little wheel simply sets the desired end point (temperature).

Absolutely the correct answer!

Compass Coffee wrote:I respectfully disagree. I've always single dosed at home 15+ years including entertaining not a big deal.

13 years for me of single dosing..... I do like the Monolith Conical and have had guests for coffee the last several weeks!

thecoffeefield wrote:Thank you! This is helpful. It's amazing though that a machine this size and for this price and it doesn't have a digital screen readout with more visual indicators.

A high quality, tight tolerance stepped potentiometer costs more than a mass produced LED readout and 2 film buttons.

I have specified, installed, tuned, calibrated Electronic Temperature Controls with the PID algorithm and also other devices with PID algorithm, most of my working career. (Well over 30 years )

When "PID, ing" of Espresso machines became "popular" provided some hardware and help to forum members wanting to "PID", their machine ( notably Silvia's because they had design parameters that lent themselves well to Electronic Control and repeatability).

I had a La Spaziale Vivaldi for many years and very seldom adjusted Temp. I have a Linea Mini that Is Rock Solid repeatable that I verified with a Scace. I seldom adjust, but it is very easy and I adjust to taste.

Just as important as "PID" algorithm is the Temperature sensor ( Thermocouple, RTD, Thermistor) and placement of same to control properly. (Thermodynamics of machine need to be considered). I won't go into Autotune Parameters, but often they are incorrect, sometimes help get closer to optimum operation.

Generally the PID ( Timing) is used to dampen the spike and smooth the Temp curve created from turning the heaters (SSR) ON and OFF.

Modern Electronic Temperature Controls have " offset" settings that allow Displays to read differently......we offset to help the Operator with the Process! Generally readouts to a 10th or Hundreth of a degree are not helpful or required and constant monitoring of exact Temp of sensor is often detrimental to process!!

To finish this discourse ( I apologize for the length). I would suggest based on experience that the Linea Mini is a very well designed PID controlled machine without a visual readout....

Most owners of "PID" machines (actually Electronic Temperature Controlled machines) only need to be aware that if readout changes, there may be an issue. If you don't have a readout, the taste will tell you there may be an issue!!

Thanks for the patience, if you read the whole post; I feel better

withoutink wrote:Hi All,

I am currently in the midst of having a new home built, and as a treat to myself I'm looking to get a higher end espresso machine.
<snip>
Here are some requirements:

- Budget $4,500 max
- Excellent shot quality
- Steams well
- Includes a hot water dispenser
- Fits under counter cabinets
- High quality, commercial or very close to commercial quality.
- Low & easy maintenance
- Long life - I am not planning on buying anything else after this.

Thanks in advance.

When I read your post, several machines jumped out in my mind, one of which you already identified.

Linea Mini
Elektra Sixties /elektra-a3 ... guide.html
Vesuvius Vesuvius Espresso Machine Review
La Cimbali Junior Casa /junior-buyers-guide.html

HB wrote: La Marzocco didn't take my suggestion, but if they had, the Linea Mini wheel would have no temperature values, just an arbitrary scale. Honestly, the La Marzocco Linea Mini appeals to me because it does not have a prominent digital readout, thereby encouraging the barista to adjust temperature by taste, not a number.

Dan,

They did in fact, take your suggestion outside of the USA. Euro models just have a mark towards the center and a blue side and a red side.

But as a LMLM owner, I have to respectfully disagree. One of the good things about the temperature setting is that it makes it possible to both repeat settings and to share settings with others.

Having set my calibration up with a SCACE-2, I can very easily take the brew recommendations off a bag Ritual Roasters espresso and dial it in very quickly. Certainly, we fine tune by taste of course. But I opened a fresh bag of their beans the other day and having all the equipment on hand to duplicate, I pulled a good shot the first time and an excellent shot the second try after adjusting the grind a little bit.

I also like to change coffees frequently, like regular in the day and decaff at night, or sometimes switch between bags as the mood strikes me. I just keep notes and dial in my grinder and temperature, dose and it becomes a very repeatable exercise.

So I say, keep the numbers on the wheel.

The nice thing about PID controlled machines is the repeatability.

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the delays in replies. Life has been crazy for awhile now. Sold two houses at once, moved to temp house (i.e. Family's house) all while building a new house.

Anyway, we have decided to delete the water source in the kitchen, and to get a Londinium R and move it into the library / den. I can build out a little coffee corner without retribution from the wife for deleting her cabinets or taking up counter space in the kitchen.

Hope to order it soon, although we are not moving in until May. So I might hold off a tiny bit.

As for grinder if needed I'll upgrade from the Sette down the road.

Dan is quite right.
I have a digital thermometer attached to the group of my Strega, and had already identified the (nominal) temperatures I preferred for some beans.
Lately I was out of luck, my shots weren't good at all, and also the Strega was taking longer to get into working conditions.
Finally I decided to pay no attention to the display and make a simple flush and go extraction, and all was ok again !
What was the problem ?
The batteries were weak and the display "lied" !!!
Tastebuds don't lie

In the long run you have to decide do you want all control possible as different coffees change the setting or do you want simplicity and a "good" shot not perfect
This drives to to 2 areas one of full control experimentation and the other more push and play what you get is good enough!!!

You have to decide