Hi Everyone,

I find myself in a similar quandary that I am sure that has plastered these pages since day one. I need help/advice on buying a new espresso machine!! I think I want a machine with the following;

1. Double boilers over heat exchanger
2. PID Control
3. Pre infusion
4. Suburb build
5. Value
6. Ease of maintenance
7. Makes damn good espresso
Over the years we have made and consumed coffee in many different ways. We had a super espresso machine that we used for five years or so and finally died a slow death. We purchased a nespresso machine with mixed results and abandon that approach. Decided to go in a new direction; purchased a Vario grinder, a Bonavista 1900 drip machine, scales, pour over equipment, Chemex, etc. We started experimenting with the equipment and ordering different coffees from around the country. Currently we can make you a great cup of coffee, however we are missing our espresso drinks. Granted with the super espresso machine that we were not getting a great espresso, however we were putting the beans in the machine and pushing a button and voila a cup of coffee. I say coffee because we dosed up the water to get a full cup, not understanding some of the more interesting chemical and physical characteristics of the coffee bean.

Now with a little knowledge I consider myself dangerous! I understand extraction in more depth. I understand coffee roasting on a different level. I understand some of the physics of how espresso machines work and some of the relative chemistry of water and the effects on coffee. I understand the theory of espresso a little bit. What I don't know is what machine to purchase. I want something that once I start making express and milk drinks that I can progress and make excellent drinks. I am of the compulsion that I don't want to wake up and find that I have brand B and wish that I had brand A.

I would value any sort of advice or personal history of how you guys ended up where you are. I will not list the machines I have researched and what I think I want to buy in fear of coloring your feedback, I do however realize what forum that I am seeking advice. Looking forward to hearing from you, thanks in advance.

Mark

La Spaziale Vivaldi or a Dream pretty much hits all your marks.

Except for the super build and ease of maintenance (electronics fail). I'd go with Londinium, possibly Rocket r58 or new r60v.

I had a La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi for ~6 years and never had one issue with it (with pretty easy maintenance, too). While the Londinium and Rocket are certainly great, I don't think a La Spaziale is going to be any less reliable.

Start with the grinder. Seriously. Start with the grinder. It is THE most important piece of equipment in the chain.If you want DAMN good espresso, you need to start with the very best grinder you can afford or have room for. Do you have room/budget for a Mahlkonig K30, or a Ceado E92, or one of the other serious titan grinders? Monolith? EG-1? HG-1?

There are lots and lots of espresso machines that will pull a stellar shot when paired with a top notch grinder and of course, good human technique.

A weak grinder will cripple the finest espresso machine.

I'm waiting for my new grinder and I'm on the wait list for an even better one. I have a La Marzocco Linea Mini, and limping by with a Vario until the new one comes. LM-LM is about as nice as an espresso machine gets. (yes, there are different ones, GS/3, Slayer and what not and you can spend more than that)

The grinder is the key to espresso, far, far more so than the machine.

nuketopia wrote:The grinder is the key to espresso, far, far more so than the machine.

Couldn't agree more!

And in case you missed it, get not just a good grinder, get one of the several GREAT grinders available. You mentioned you wanted to make "damn good espresso ". The espresso machine cannot make up for a mediocre grinder, period.

Grinders I would consider, depending on your budget:

Versalab M3
Ceado e37s
Mahlkonig K30
Compak k10
Kafetec monolith
Baratza Sette

I've probably missed a few, and have left out the manual grinders

After you've researched the grinder, and have become totally convinced that the better grinder you invest in the better your espresso will be, then go after the espresso machine, even a good HX machine with a great grinder will make damn good espresso whereas a mediocre grinder with a Slayer will only be able to make mediocre espresso.

Cheers!

nuketopia wrote:Start with the grinder. Seriously. Start with the grinder. It is THE most important piece of equipment in the chain.If you want DAMN good espresso, you need to start with the very best grinder you can afford or have room for. Do you have room/budget for a Mahlkonig K30, or a Ceado E92, or one of the other serious titan grinders? Monolith? EG-1? HG-1?

There are lots and lots of espresso machines that will pull a stellar shot when paired with a top notch grinder and of course, good human technique.

A weak grinder will cripple the finest espresso machine.

I'm waiting for my new grinder and I'm on the wait list for an even better one. I have a La Marzocco Linea Mini, and limping by with a Vario until the new one comes. LM-LM is about as nice as an espresso machine gets. (yes, there are different ones, GS/3, Slayer and what not and you can spend more than that)

The grinder is the key to espresso, far, far more so than the machine.

Personally I would (and have, past tense) get a used grinder first, so you can try first then sell without losing much.

I have a Compak K10, Mythos Plus, and Bunnzilla to try out each of the major categories. I find I prefer the Bunnzilla (yes, for espresso) by far. As such my next grinder after I sell off the other two is probably going to be a flat Monolith. But if I prefered the K10 or the Mythos, I'd pick a different top end grinder instead. This way I know.

I 100% agree the grinder is the most important link in great espresso The problem with buying a used grinder is you really need to at least replace the burrs to have a valid opinion of the grinder. I have a La Cimbali Hybrid. I am also a homeroaster. Six weeks after changing my burrs I had a nice bean size rock go through the ginder! New burrs after six weeks! It was a bummer, but changing burrs is easy on my grinder. Another issue I have with a used grinder is you never know what it has been through. I had a friend buy a used Masser Major, replaced the burrs, and found out the shaft was bent. His $500.00 "steal" turned out to be an almost $600.00 waste of money with burrs that were no longer returnable. I would highly recommend that you at least call and discuss grinders with knowledgeable vendors like Clive Coffee or Chris' Coffee. If you want a great dedicated espresso grinder, don't overlook the manual grinders. I have a reconditioned Zass hand grinder from Orphan Espresso that grinds just as well as my Cimbali. The price of a hand grinder is much less, and it never hurts to have a backup grinder.

Les