Help choosing - Baratza Vario, Mahlkonig K30 Vario, Compak F10 Conic OD

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
alan278
Posts: 22
Joined: 11 years ago

#1: Post by alan278 »

Wow - when I purchased my Mazzer Mini many years ago the selection for home use was not at all like it is today. Anyway, the mini seems to be having problems so I'm ready for a new grinder.
I've read many threads some of which are a bit old so I'd like to get latest opinions.
Briefly - info on me and on what I'm considering. Any thoughts welcome.

Me:
- typically just 2-3 shots per day (weekday vs. weekend)
- only espresso grind (no need to grind for drip, french press, etc)
- One bag of beans at a time, typically CC Toscano, Stumptown Hairbender, Blue Bottle Hayes Valley
- currently single-dose using plastic lid (from old olympia grinder which was paired with my olympia cremina - long gone...) or tamper to prevent popcorning
- expobar brewtus 2 espresso machine
- 20 gram vst basket
- WDT to reduce channeling (one goal in upgrading - eliminate this from my process!)

Considering:
1. Mahlkoning K30 Vario -
pros: fits under counter, will last a long time, very good grind
cons: 3x the price of Baratza Vario (and not much better grind?), wide footprint
2. Baratza Vario
pros: small i.e. high WAF (wife acceptance factor), inexpensive (comparatively)
cons: lowest quality grind and probably the shortest life of these 3 units
3. Compak K10 Fresh (actually I'd wait for a Compak F10 Conic OD, although it's the same unit)
pros: best grind of these units
cons: tall (will not fit under my cabinet even with short hopper), most expensive, requires fiddling - would need to either keep hopper off except when using (pull out from under cabinet) and/or find the "single doser" solution which may require more purchase and/or modifications to it, most retention of all 3 so that means waste and/or extra effort

The single pro for K10 puts that one at the top of my list. The Baratza seems a more prudent choice than the Mahlkonig given it's so much cheaper and smaller - it could be a "temporary" grinder for a few years until some other unit (like a revised K30 or a new F/K10 etc) comes out for me to upgrade to. I suspect the Baratza Vario will be better than my Mazzer Mini anyway.
So my current thinking is (1) C-F/K10 (fresh), (2) B-Vario, (3) M-K30

Suggestions/comments welcome.

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boar_d_laze
Posts: 2058
Joined: 17 years ago

#2: Post by boar_d_laze »

alan278 wrote:typically just 2-3 shots per day (weekday vs. weekend)
You're by no means the only person to consider this a criterion, but I always wonder about it. Do you feel you should buy poorly-prepared, cheap steak because you only eat steak once a week?
- only espresso grind (no need to grind for drip, french press, etc)
Good.
- One bag of beans at a time, typically CC Toscano, Stumptown Hairbender, Blue Bottle Hayes Valley
What does one bag of beans at at time mean? That you only use suitably fresh coffee? FWIW, espresso beans with less than five days post-roast rest aren't ready for grinding. I wait until day eight.
- currently single-dose using plastic lid (from old olympia grinder which was paired with my olympia cremina - long gone...) or tamper to prevent popcorning
Are you going to continue to single dose by weight?
- expobar brewtus 2 espresso machine
OK
- 20 gram vst basket
OK. I think the 18g basket is a little easier to manage, but to each his own.
- WDT to reduce channeling (one goal in upgrading - eliminate this from my process!)
Don't count on perfect espresso porn pours, every time, every day from even the best grinders. There are lots of contingencies, for instance weather can play a part.
1. Mahlkoning K30 Vario -
pros: fits under counter, will last a long time, very good grind
cons: 3x the price of Baratza Vario (and not much better grind?), wide footprint
The K30's in the cup qualities are much better than the Vario's. It's not as user friendly, though.
2. Baratza Vario
pros: small i.e. high WAF (wife acceptance factor), inexpensive (comparatively)
cons: lowest quality grind and probably the shortest life of these 3 units
If you're worried about life time, you have the budget for a Forte. Most user friendly of your choices across just about every important -- or even conceivable -- axis. But as you say, a step or two less good in the cup.
3. Compak K10 Fresh (actually I'd wait for a Compak F10 Conic OD, although it's the same unit)
pros: best grind of these units
cons: tall (will not fit under my cabinet even with short hopper), most expensive, requires fiddling - would need to either keep hopper off except when using (pull out from under cabinet) and/or find the "single doser" solution which may require more purchase and/or modifications to it, most retention of all 3 so that means waste and/or extra effort
If you're going to single dose, don't get an OD. Get the PB.
The single pro for K10 puts that one at the top of my list.
If you drink espresso for the taste, that makes sense.
The Baratza seems a more prudent choice than the Mahlkonig given it's so much cheaper and smaller - it could be a "temporary" grinder for a few years until some other unit (like a revised K30 or a new F/K10 etc) comes out for me to upgrade to.
Even though the size of its burr set is only 65mm, the K30 gives the same in the cup quality as a large nummber of big flats. I wouldn't worry too much about revisions. Whatever small advantages things like more torque and slower rotation give you are already on the market. Also, since Compak's E and F OD series are brand new on the market, I wouldn't expect much in the way of revisions anytime soon.
I suspect the Baratza Vario will be better than my Mazzer Mini anyway.
A little bit better in the cup; subtle, hard to put your finger on. A lot more conveneint. But flimsy.
So my current thinking is (1) C-F/K10 (fresh), (2) B-Vario, (3) M-K30
Compak: Be aware that the F10 is not a K10, the old K10 Fresh is no more, but the K10 model continues in the form of the K10 PB with its mechanical doser; that there's an E10 series which might suit you every bit as well as the F10s, and costs less; that the K-10 PB is the best of the Compaks -- and perhaps the best of the big conics -- for single dosing; and that there are other big conics besides the Compaks.

Baratza: Don't forget to consider the Forte

Mahlkonig: The K30 is not the only big flat in the sea.

Rich
Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator

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TrlstanC
Posts: 505
Joined: 16 years ago

#3: Post by TrlstanC »

I went through a very similar process and ended up with the Compak PB. The pros for it are that it's good at single dosing, the espresso tastes great and it's very consistent (I hardly ever have to tweak the grind after getting it dialed in). The con is that it's not designed to be used in a home. Sweeping it out is doable, but not ideal and it takes up a lot of room (which wasn't a big deal for me).

The process of using the other two grinders will be much more similar, they both have the benefit of very little retention, so you don't have to deal with sweeping, etc. Personally, I wouldn't care about the how long the Vario is going to last. I think it's lifetime will be measured in decades, and I've seen cafes that use them for decaf and they'll get more use and abuse even as backup grinders in a cafe than in any home.

For me the question came down to "am I willing to spend more for better espresso" and "am I willing to futz around with sweeping out the chute to have a big conical?"

DanoM
Posts: 1375
Joined: 11 years ago

#4: Post by DanoM »

I started with the Baratza Vario. Good little grinder. Plastic construction is likely to cause some long term reliability issues, but in the year plus I had mine it was little problem to operate and adjust grind. Great STARTER grinder I think... I didn't modify anything on the Vario.
WDT was required with my Vario.

I don't know the K30 personally, so I'll leave that to others.

Compak K10 Conic (with the tamper nose, but essentially the same as the PB). I've had one of these on my bench for a couple months and have done a couple mods. Night and day difference between this K10 and the Vario. Not even in the same cafe world.
No stepped adjustment on the collar, so infinite points. The numbers on the collar seem to work fine as an adjustment reference.
After mods the below burr chamber can self clean - I haven't documented my mod on that as I'm still testing long term reliability.
Add some plastic strips to the doser sweeper and it will sweep beautifully clean.
Burr chamber to doser chute can be cleaned/swept quite easily. Some use an acid brush, and I use a popsicle stick.
Doser, at least my older Conic one throws to the left a little. Simple mod keeps the grinds in the center of the basket and no more PF loading issues.
Doser works great with the grind. I never see clumping. I don't get spritzers and use a naked PF 90% of the time. (I do sometimes see a fracture cause a mini spritz that can't get past the extraction, but it's still a spritz I guess. At least they don't actually spray.)
WDT? What's that? I gave my WDT tools to the guy who bought my last machine. I don't WDT anymore, and just don't have spritzers that can actually spray.
You can run this with or without a hopper funnel. I have the OE K10 funnel on mine with my stainless dosing cup as the popcorn lid.
VERY, very, tall machine. If you have to move it to load your beans I wouldn't recommend it.

There are other conics out there that might work for you too. Depends on your height restrictions I guess. There's always the HG-One hand grinder that looks great; they are tall, but can be moved around without too much trouble.
LMWDP #445

alan278 (original poster)
Posts: 22
Joined: 11 years ago

#5: Post by alan278 (original poster) »

the K-10 PB is the best of the Compaks -- and perhaps the best of the big conics
Why is the K-10 PB the best of the Compaks i.e. why is it better than the K-10 Fresh?
VERY, very, tall machine. If you have to move it to load your beans I wouldn't recommend it.
I'll have less than an inch of clearance under my cabinets with the Fresh with single-dose adapter, so probably will need to move it out to load it. I"m sure it's heavy, but would it not slide along the counter? I do that now with my Mazzer Mini but that's tiny and light compared with the Compak, I assume. I could put it on a plastic mat that slides...

Alternatively, is there a titan conical that's shorter than the Compak that I should consider?

frank828
Posts: 302
Joined: 12 years ago

#6: Post by frank828 »

take a look at the Nuova Simonelli Mythos grinder.

you'll have less waste due to the near vertical burr mounting design. I think the taste is very similar to a K30.

alan278 (original poster)
Posts: 22
Joined: 11 years ago

#7: Post by alan278 (original poster) »

Mythos looks good - I do like that vertical burr design, but it's too tall for me.

Mrboots2u
Posts: 645
Joined: 10 years ago

#8: Post by Mrboots2u »

frank828 wrote:take a look at the Nuova Simonelli Mythos grinder.

you'll have less waste due to the near vertical burr mounting design. I think the taste is very similar to a K30.
Having had both I'd say the mythos for my taste give a better in the cup more rounded espresso.
Bigger burrs than the k30 ;)

Beenbag
Posts: 330
Joined: 11 years ago

#9: Post by Beenbag »

alan278 wrote: Alternatively, is there a titan conical that's shorter than the Compak that I should consider?
I am not sure they are available in the US, but Fiorenzato have several big 65 & 71 mm Conicals that may fit the bill. Manual doser or electronic doser less.
Solid , commercial, quality m/c,s.
http://www.fiorenzato.it/en/
You can see the relative size of them in the video at the bottom of that page

DanoM
Posts: 1375
Joined: 11 years ago

#10: Post by DanoM »

You could put the K10 grinder on a thin cutting mat and slide it around. It's still a big machine, so you'd have to be crazy to keep doing that... Oh wait, your into espresso and on this site... You'll do just fine! :lol:

The smallest conical grinders are hand grinders like the OE Pharos. HG-One is more "mobile", but it might not be shorter. Once you go with a motor they are a bit large. Mine has a 1hp motor to drive the grind!
I think Rich has a Fiorenzato E92? Not sure if that's smaller or not though.

The K30/Nuova Simonelli and like do get many positive comments on these forums. Again with commercial machines height is your problem.

I had the height issue too. I was looking at a Strega... So I negotiated a bench space just outside the kitchen with the wife and I had all the room and height necessary when the K10 arrived too. Definitely nice to get my own bench at a better height for espresso.
LMWDP #445

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